 You would never use the avalanche plan because almost no one actually finishes it because they lose hope. They get stuck in a large debt, the high interest rate, and they're just peddling and peddling and getting nowhere, and they lose hope. And 30 days in, they quit instead of getting fired up and wired up and plowing on through. And that's the difference. So you always use this. And by the way, Northwestern University actually did a research study on it.