 hokuma and bina with keller up top bringing down divine that's why the ceremonial magician when they're doing a cabalistic cross to bring the divine light and let it descend down the pillar into us to bring in that energy joe thanks for your call appreciate it i guess there are some people practicing witchcraft and they don't even know itself well for sure i mean you know there is a lot to be said about mind work you know and you know it was like that 70s term esp it's real it works