 You are listening to The World Cafe. My name is Reina Duras. Today's the 4th of July. It's Independence Day. There's a lot of talk about freedom on this holiday. And you might hear the phrase repeated, freedom isn't free. It's a phrase used to justify all sorts of things. And it's one that Chicano Batman's Bardo Martinez does not agree with. Here's what he said about it a few years back.