 I mean, we're getting older, right? So like the path is long and winding, it turns out. Luckily, we're all getting older. I think that's a good thing. For people who don't know him, I mean, he's got this larger than life personality and a very distinctive laugh. And you were saying that you got to sort of know him under pressure before he was hosting cooking shows and winning Emmys for The Bear and the whole thing. What was he like back then?