 So I kind of embraced it, really. I thought, isn't this great? We don't have to tell a really negative story and say it's all bad for you. Tim was convinced that basically the research was clear, that this was settled science. For Tim, that really started to change when he got a call from another researcher named Kay Middleton Fillmore. She sounded a bit upset that nobody would fund her work on doubting the protective effects. So I heard her out.