 And with her $165,000 worth of student debt to become a marriage and family counselor, she's making $80,000. That's an interesting story about the value of education. The value of a trade in today's society. Mike Rowe would like that story. He would. I hope he's listening right now. He would be giving us his little Mike Rowe snicker. That little snicker of his. That deep voice of his. This is the Ramsey Show.