 what's at the ugly center of that show and what we see happening today. Well, my guest is Emily Nussbaum, who reminds us that Phantom Bailey tried to pitch a show with Donald Trump, and he said he wasn't interested in television. The book is Cue the Sun, The Invention of Reality TV. I can't thank you enough for doing this, Emily. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was great talking to you.