 And this, he thinks, may make a society less resilient, less cohesive, its people less able to support each other. Back in the camper van, looking out on bobbing boats in a sunlit marina, the one-hour visit I'd agreed with Jan is rapidly coming to an end. Sorry, I know I'm running out of your time. No, still it's allowed. Yeah, you tell me when it's not allowed, right? Four o'clock. Four o'clock, OK. For Jan and Els, the hours and minutes are ticking by quickly.