 And David got in touch with us again and said, let's get Bill and go back one more time. And let's make a show that will be a five-year look at these people's lives, which we did. And that was very successful. And then a few years later, Kathy and I were in the same sort of blue sky conversation with Bill Moyers and his wife, Judith Moyers. They ran the company together. And they said, what should we do this year? And Kathy and I said, why don't we go back to Bill White?