 Van Newkirk is senior editor at The Atlantic, where you can find his article, What America Owes the Planet. Van, it's always nice to talk with you. Thanks so much for making time. Thank you for having me. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram by searching for KERA Think. Same search term will work wherever you like to get your podcasts, if you'd like to subscribe to ours, or just go to our website to listen. It's think.kera.org. Again, I'm Chris Boyd. Thanks for listening. Have a great day.