 But Joel, who was one of the cast members on it, described it to me as the first moment that he really understood what the show was because he was just sitting there in the woods and they bring out these bowls with the squirming live grubs that have these very hard pinchers. And he was like, there's no way they're going to have us do this. It's just too disgusting and outrageous. And when he realized it was really happening, he was like, this is like nothing that's ever been on TV.