 You've been listening to On Shifting Ground, produced in partnership with KQED with funding from listeners like you. Today's episode was produced, mixed, and mastered by Mateo Schimpf. Additional production and engineering were provided by Rob Spate. KQED's Jim Bennett is our technical supervisor. Jared Sport is our executive producer. Philip Yun is co-CEO of Commonwealth Club World Affairs. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions. I'm Ray Suarez.