 But a lot of clients, when they first come to me and I explain to them what expressive arts is and how it can be integrated, I think a lot of people are curious and interested. But there's sometimes a very slow uptake. It's a different way of being. And so a lot of us, when we think about the arts, we think about just high levels of creativity, like really beautiful works of art. And so we have sort of an inner critic that says, I could never do that, and I'm not an artist. And there's a label that comes along with it.