 debtor. He's not going up there for wealth or riches. He's going up there because he owes a debt and he wants to pay it. He's not going up there for fame or notoriety. Don't you know when he's up there in Rome, if he's making a big splash, he'd hit the newspapers, so to speak. There would be blogs and vlogs talking about him in our day. He doesn't say any of that.