 But as we took the train down to Odessa, this is two years ago, this is very early into the war, took the train down to Odessa, then was able to arrange a car to take us through the checkpoints into Mykolayiv to where the shipyards are. Once we got down there, that Ukrainian rah-rah nationalism, it just wasn't there anymore because you started to get into the areas that did have the bombed out buildings, that did have people, we saw the looting, we saw people who were still staying back, even in these cities,