 It's not clear that these names you hear so often, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Westmore of Maryland. It's not clear to Joe Biden or to me that any of those people could, from a standing start, mount a presidential campaign. So it's not the rules of the DNC that are the barrier to getting Joe Biden up the ticket. It's the reality of how he feels about the alternatives.