 And if you're borrowing at prime or prime minus, you're still at 7.5%, 8%. If you're making a 6% dividend and the cost of borrowing is 7%, 8%, that doesn't work, right? But there's a failsafe. So the second way to access funds for these policies is you can borrow directly from the insurance company. They do what's called policy loans. You have a contractual right to do that. And these loans are set annually, the rates, and they're set at rates that are below market rates.