Former Wallabies player Peter Fitzsimons has become embroiled in a heated exchange on live television over the Israel Folau social media controversy. Fitzsimons and journalist Miranda Devine were on Weekend Today discussing the young rugby union star’s post and the Australian Rugby Union’s decision to stand him down when things intensified. “I was never a Wallaby the calibre of Israel Folau, but he has lost the dressing-room entirely,” Fitzsimons said. Israel Folau. (AP) “You can't do what he did.” Fitzsimons was referring to the Wallabies fullback post which read: " 'WARNING Drunks Homosexuals Adulterers Liars Fornicators Thieves Atheists Idolaters, HELL AWAITS YOU." The post came 12-months after Folau was warned by the Australian Rugby Union for comments made to a fan in which he said gay people were going to hell unless the repented their sins. Fitzsimons said the judicial process looked at documents, cross-examined witness and found him in breach of his contract. “There is no other organisation in Australia that could possibly countenance one of their employees, the person they put on the poster in the shopfront window, posting that,” he said. “And there is no sponsor in the country that would say ‘hmm, want a bit of that’.” Devine hit back, suggesting the disappointed players Fitzsimmons had spoken too didn’t represent the majority. “I don't think that you have interviewed every single person in that change room,” she said. “More than half the players in Australian rugby from the grassroots on up are Polynesians and also devout Christians like Israel Folau. “I can tell you, they do not agree with what you are saying. I don't understand how you can just crucify a man for his Christianity. “All he has done is quoted the Bible and you seem to think that it's OK to destroy not just his job, but his livelihood.” Devine added Folau believes he had been blindsided by the ruling because he doesn’t think he has done anything wrong. “Majority of Australians have some sort of religious faith, if you are going to tell them that they cannot express their faith for fear of losing their entire career, their entire life, their entire livelihood, then I don't know that we live in a free country,” she said. Peter FitzSimons (Nine) Fitzsimons added the impacts extended more than just freedom of speech. “We have to understand that some kids are born with blond hair, some with blood hair, some kids are born gay,” he said. “Kids in the suburbs, particularly teenagers, are taking their lives because of vilification.” Devine hit back and said that was the “most cynical point”, adding most Australians would fit into at least one of the category of people he had mentioned. Folau was stood down by Rugby Australia after the April 10 post. He is fighting the breach notice which is recommending his four-year $4 million contract be torn up.<doc-sep>Former Wallaby and prominent journalist Peter FitzSimons has taken aim at Alan Jones over the radio host’s defence of Israel Folau. Jones – an ex-Wallabies coach – has been one of the controversial rugby star’s loudest and staunchest supporters throughout the ugly dispute with Rugby Australia (RA). Folau’s future in Australian rugby is looking increasingly grim after an independent panel determined that the Wallabies superstar committed a “high level” breach of his contract. The three-person panel of chair John West QC, Rugby Australia representative Kate Eastman SC and the RUPA-appointed John Boultbee have now retired to decide on Folau’s sanction following an epic code of conduct hearing in Sydney. ‘UTTER BULLS***’: The major ‘flaw’ in the Israel Folau debate Jones described the Folau ruling as the most shameful day in the history of Australian rugby. RA boss Raelene Castle issued Folau with a breach notice last month following his controversial social media posts about homosexuals and other sinners and threatened to tear up his four-year, $4 million contract. Israel Folau. (Photo by Matt King/Getty Images) The 30-year-old devout Christian took to Instagram to proclaim “hell awaits” for “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolators”. Folau has received plenty of support for his controversial social media posts, with One Nation MP Mark Latham presenting a speech to NSW parliament defending Folau and questioning what right RA has to censor the star. Jones used his 2GB breakfast program on radio to show Folau his support – quoting extracts from the speech on Wednesday morning “Those claiming outrage have fabricated their position solely for the purpose of censorship,” the speech read, according to Jones. “This is not an argument about diversity. Alan Jones has slammed the Israel Folau ruling. Image: Getty/SkyNews “By excluding a committed Christian, they are making their game less inclusive. “I believe no Australians should live in fear of the words they utter. “No Australian should be fearful of proclaiming four of the most glorious words of our civilisation: I am a Christian. Story continues “Nor should anyone be sacked by their employer for statements of genuine belief and faith that have got nothing to do with their job. FitzSimons used his column in The Sydney Morning Herald to fire back at suggestions Folau should be entitled to speak his mind without being punished for his controversial religious beliefs. “This is Western civilisation evolving, and saying that while publicly marginalising a group used to be acceptable, and even a part of the law of the land, it is no longer acceptable,” FitzSimons wrote. Jones’ stance on Folau has been slammed by FitzSimons in his newspaper column. Pic: Getty “How many of you, reading this, are free in your own workplaces to put up social media posts like Folau and still be employed? Across our brown and pleasant land, millions of employees get it, comport themselves accordingly, and we’re a stronger and more inclusive country because of it.” FitzSimons went on to argue that the suggestion Folau was being unfairly made an example of because he is a Christian is “utter bollocks”. “Within rugby ranks, Wallaby flanker David Pocock, who led the charge against homophobia in the code, is a devout Christian,” FitzSimons pointed out. “Willie Ofahengaue, the first Tongan to play for the Wallabies, is a devout Christian, and both of our Wallaby World Cup-winning captains in Nick Farr-Jones and John Eales answer the same description.” ‘He’s got strange ideas in his head’ Another former Wallaby has weighed in on the controversy. Clyde Rathbone, who represented both the Wallabies and ACT Brumbies, took aim at Folau and his most staunch defender, radio personality Alan Jones in a piece for PlayersVoice. The former wing said he was a “free speech absolutist”, but said there was a difference between limiting Folau’s religious freedom and violating the terms of his Rugby Australia contract. “For me, Israel is free to say whatever he chooses, but he is not free to force Rugby Australia to continue employing him if he has breached his contract by promoting views which undermine the organisation’s values,” Rathbone write. “Radio presenter Alan Jones, in particular, seems to be doing his best to position Israel as a victim, calling the Rugby Australia ruling ‘Orwellian’. “This is nonsense. I’d like to ask Alan if he believes his employer, commercial radio station, 2GB, is obligated to continue employing him regardless of his speech? “Alan Jones could quote from the Bible to lend his support to slavery, torture and murder. Can he continue to do so and keep his job? I think he cannot. “And yet this is analogous to the Folau situation in every way.” With agencies<doc-sep>Loading One more time for the dummies, no one is curtailing Folau's freedom of speech by dragging him off to prison. But nor is he free from the consequences of what he said. Those consequences include having his contract terminated, for breaching its terms. Freedom of religion? Please. Folau can believe whatever he damn well pleases, including the illogical and offensive absurdity that the same omnipotent Lord who made some of his creations attracted to their own gender will also have them burn in the pits of hell for all eternity, for their trouble. Yes, he can believe that. But when he proselytises those views and puts it in the public domain, despite knowing the hurt it engenders, the damage it does to his employers, and the fact that he is specifically breaching commitments he has made not to do any such thing, then he does not have a legal leg to stand on. For, friends, when all the columns are written, and all the rants are finished, what it will come down to is straight employment law and whether or not he has breached his contractual obligations in a flagrant enough fashion to have his contract terminated. I believe that is exactly what he has done and both the independent tribunal and, if necessary, a law court will find. Israel Folau said he had not thought about a legal case for religious discrimination when asked on Sunday. Credit:Steven Siewert Under the collective bargaining agreement Rugby Australia reached with the Rugby Union Players Association, the contract every player signs is standard and so they weren't able to put in Folau’s actual contract specific provisions on social media. Nevertheless, even in that standard contract, the protocol on social media is clear, and no one at RA – or it seems Folau's teammates – is in doubt that he has breached them. Beyond that, there is specific documentation separate to the formal contract whereby it was made clear to Folau and his management – legally and formally – the consequences of Folau doing it again. There were meetings held, and among other things Folau gave a personal commitment to his coach Michael Cheika, not to put the Wallabies through it all again. Loading Despite all that, Folau did it ... again. When his employers then tried to contact him, there was radio silence for nigh on 36 hours, also breaching his legal commitment to respond in a timely manner to any concerns his employer might have. When his employers did finally get to him, to sit face-to-face, there was no remorse, and, as we speak, the post is still up. In how many workplaces across Australia would an employee doing that have reasonable expectation to remain employed? So right now, the process is that Folau will have to front the Code of Conduct Tribunal, where three people will be charged with determining to what extent the player might be in breach. According to the contract Folau signed, whereby he agrees to be subject to this process, the tribunal must have regard to such things as whether "the player's conduct was intentional", "whether the consequences of the player's conduct were reasonably foreseeable at the time the conduct took place", "whether the player's conduct or behaviour may or may not have caused offence to the general public's sensibilities" and "whether it would cause reputational damage to Rugby Australia". Can anyone, seriously, argue other than, on the known facts, Folau has breached those provisions at the "highest level"? For the life of me I cannot see how Folau's contract can survive it. He signed the contract, he made a commitment to pull his head in on offensive homophobic posts, but did it anyway. But still, you want to go on about his "freedom of religion?" Nup.<doc-sep>
Things became heated in the Channel 9 studios when the Israel Folau controversy was brought up. CREDIT: Weekend Today Things became heated in the Channel 9 studios when the Israel Folau controversy was brought up. CREDIT: Weekend Today... Former Wallaby Peter FitzSimons has clashed with journalist Miranda Devine on live TV over the Israel Folau saga. The rugby star is waiting to find out what his penalty will be after being found guilty of a high-level breach during a code of conduct hearing in Sydney following his Instagram post that quoted a bible passage saying “hell awaits” gay people. There’s every chance he will have his $4 million, four-year Rugby Australia contract torn up or he may escape with a suspension and/or fine. FitzSimons has been vocal on TV and in his newspaper columns saying Folau must be sacked because he’s broken a commitment not to spread homophobic messages on social media after a similar incident last year. He reinforced that view on Channel 9’s Weekend Today. “He has lost the dressing-room entirely,” FitzSimons said. “You can’t do what he did. “There is no other organisation in Australia that could possibly countenance one of their employees, the person they put on the poster in the shopfront window, posting that. “And there is no sponsor, there is no corporation in the country that would say, ‘Hmm, (we) want a bit of that. Take $5 million, we’ll associate ourselves with that’.” Devine, a columnist for The Daily Telegraph, hit back at FitzSimons and said Folau has more support in the Australian rugby community than people realise. “More than half the players in Australian rugby from the grassroots on up are Polynesians and also devout Christians like Israel Folau and I can tell you, they do not agree with what you are saying,” Devine said. “I don’t understand how you can just crucify a man for his Christianity. All he has done is quote the Bible and you seem to think that it’s OK to destroy not just his job, but his livelihood. “If you are going to tell every person of faith — which is the majority of Australians have some sort of religious faith — if you are going to tell them that they cannot express their faith for fear of losing their entire career, their entire life, their entire livelihood, then I don’t know that we live in a free country.” RELATED: Rugby boss reveals biggest Folau frustration RELATED: All Black fires shot in Folau war FitzSimons responded by saying Folau wasn’t being criticised for his faith but rather because he was spreading “homophobic slurs”, and said society understands not everything in the Bible should be taken literally. He also referenced the plea from Ian Roberts, the first Australian NRL player to publicly came out as gay, who last week on TV said young, gay people were taking their own lives because of comments about sexuality like Folau’s. At various stages in the segment, FitzSimons asked Devine to let him finish his point when he felt he was being interrupted. “We have to understand that some kids are born with blond hair, some with black hair, some kids are born gay,” he said. “As Ian Roberts said last week, kids in the suburbs, particularly teenagers, are taking their lives because of vilification.” However, Devine stood firm and said Folau is free to believe what he wants, arguing he spread his message out of love, not hate. “You are trying to dictate to him what he should believe,” Devine told FitzSimons. “Do you think of the young Christian teens who might be hurt by your constant tweeting about the big daddy in the sky? You criticise Christians all the time. “There were lots of sinners named in there … most of Australia would fit into one of those categories that Israel Folau described as sinners. “He didn’t say, ‘I hate you people’, he did it as (Wallabies legend) Nick Farr-Jones said, in love.”