

  (Source: CleanTechnica)
Annual death toll expected to rise













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RE: What are the chances
By omnicronx on 6/7/2010 12:11:11 PM , Rating: 3
and I would just like to know..

How many birds do you think die a year as a result of a single high rise building with reflective windows? I bet the numbers are comparable..

RE: What are the chances
By Steve1981 on 6/7/2010 12:29:24 PM , Rating: 5

I'd suspect the issue isn't with generic bird deaths, but the types of birds that are more liable to be killed. Killing a few hundred golden eagles in their environment has a lot more consequences than killing a few thousand pigeons in a city.

RE: What are the chances
By omnicronx on 6/7/2010 1:53:50 PM , Rating: 3
Anyone can play devils advocate by throwing around stats like these.

Power lines alone will kill exponentially more raptors and birds of prey each year than wind turbines ever will.

For example a french study found that over 3 years along 180 miles of power lines, they found around 700 carcases in which 30% were birds of prey, including 6 eagles.

The point is these stats are a drop in the bucket compared to other man made ways that even birds of prey can die.

AND FYI I'm not even a wind proponent (i find it a massive waste of space in areas in which other power sources are feasible, i.e it should only be used when not close to a water source), I'm just anti enviro scum. The only people holding back clean energy more than the oil giants..

RE: What are the chances
By Steve1981 on 6/7/2010 2:11:17 PM , Rating: 3

Perhaps; however, I wasn't trying to make some big environmental statement so much as point out the fallacy of comparing bird deaths in a city due to high rise buildings versus raptor deaths in the wild.

RE: What are the chances
By omnicronx on 6/7/2010 4:20:12 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry, was not meant to be a personal attack, was more or less responding to the article not your comments ;)

I'm not one to shoot the messenger ;) You were just reiterating what they were trying to get across, I was merely attempting to play devils advocate against those statements.

RE: What are the chances
By Steve1981 on 6/7/2010 5:37:12 PM , Rating: 2
Not to worry. I'm no hardcore enviro-nut, although I do like a good discussion.

Although if we're playing devils advocate, I would opine that your argument is an example of the two wrongs make a right fallacy, ie since power lines and predators kill raptors, it's ok for wind turbines to do the same.

There is the matter of scale; however: suppose you have a million and one dollars. Say some dastardly person steals your million in the middle of the night. Later that night, in spite of the fact that I can clearly see you've been robbed, I take your last dollar. Obviously, taking that last dollar is wrong, but its arguably all the worse because I'm kicking you when you're down.

RE: What are the chances


RE: What are the chances



RE: What are the chances
I agree. Its a collaborative problem.

RE: What are the chances
By mcnabney on 6/7/10, Rating: 0
RE: What are the chances
By Reclaimer77 on 6/7/2010 9:36:38 PM , Rating: 4
You just revealed that you know absolutely nothing about wind power. Turbines take up zero real estate since they are either offshore or scattered around fields of crops or grazing cows.

In their current super-limited implementation, sure. But the only way for wind power to provide enough energy for a significant number of people, is to take up MASSIVE amounts of land or oceanfront.

RE: What are the chances

RE: What are the chances
By Iaiken on 6/7/2010 12:33:58 PM , Rating: 3
Just one pair of buildings is responsible for over 7000 bird deaths over the course of a 10 year study here in Toronto:

There are numerous buildings along various flight paths and the last gross estate I heard was somewhere in the 90,000 birds a year range in the greater Toronto area.

It is an especially large problem here, because The Great Lakes are a barrier to most small birds. Many of them follow the coasts until they reach the Niagara peninsula and Windsor regions. Because the coast is built up from Scarborough, Toronto and Mississauga all the way around to Hamilton, you're looking at a 100km long gauntlet of often reflective skyscrapers and tall buildings.

RE: What are the chances
By FaceMaster on 6/7/2010 1:10:05 PM , Rating: 2

Natural selection in action.

RE: What are the chances
By MrBlastman on 6/7/2010 12:53:29 PM , Rating: 5
I think this is great.

Just the other day I noticed one of the screens on our screened-in porch was dented in at the top and now I have to fix it. It is obvious a bird caused it, and I'm sure they cause this all across America in many homes.

These Wind Farms are not a problem at all, the environmentalists just aren't looking at it properly. With all the talk of unemployment in America, lack of proper healthcare and lackluster jobs growth, these people need to re-assess their studies. Wind Farms are providing many benefits that clearly can be seen if you look a little further into it:

1. America eats birds program: People near these farms are STARVING! Not only do they need affordable power, they also need food! Dead birds=food... for cheap! They already have paid their power bills, now they get discounted birds in their supermarkets (or, they could drive up and participate in an "America eats birds" program.

2. Scrounging hour: This will also help the wind farms cut costs by allowing the people to come onto the lots on "scrounging hour" to pick the best of the bunch to fill their bellies.

3. Cash-For-Feathers program: Look, shelter capacity is at an all time demand lately and we just can't afford to open any more of them. These birds have a lucrative byproduct other than their organ meat. They have feathers! If you allow Americans to trade-in their feathers (after they eat the rest of the bird) in the "Cash-For-Feathers" program, our Government can then use these feathers to fill pillows and mattresses in shelters across the country.

I feel horrible for all those that are impoverished these days and this is the least our government can do to capitalize on this untapped resource.

4. Stylin' for America: In this program, citizens can turn in the beaks of the birds they eat in to our Government so it can subsidize Shampoo and Skin-Care products for everyone! Keratin is vital for revitalizing our beauty. Now there will be no excuse at all for Americans not looking their best.

And most importantly,

5. Hot Dogs n' Ballparks for kids: When our economy is down, more Americans should be watching Baseball, our national pasttime (who knew?!). With the advent of inflated ticket prices due to athletes being paid absurd amounts of money (they work really hard!), it has become grossly harder for the average family to afford the essentials of a good game: peanuts and hot dogs.

Well, we can fix that, America! With the Hot Dogs n' Ballparks program, all Americans who consume birds from these Windfarms can use a Government™ Nitrate Rectal Extration Kit™ to pull valuable nitrates straight from the dead birds and send it in to dramatically reduce Hot Dog processing costs! This will lower expenses at ballparks around our great country and help fill the stands, letting us forget about the hard times that are upon us. People from afar can come 'sportin their new do's and bring their Government™ stuffed cushions to sit on.

So, what did we learn here, kids? Think! That's right environmentalists, this is an opportunity! Help America be strong, help their problems... fly away.

RE: What are the chances
By FrankJBones on 6/9/2010 9:41:52 AM , Rating: 2
You tried WAY too hard and made it pathetic instead of funny.

I would only recommend watching baseball to those in the population who need non-invasive lobotomies. Looks like you already got yours. One down, a few million neocons and born-again christians to go.

RE: What are the chances
By Clenathan on 6/7/2010 3:02:01 PM , Rating: 2
So because wind farm-related deaths may be lower than high rise building deaths it's ok? Let's keep doing harmful things as long as they aren't as bad as the existing ones. Just another reason for nuclear.

RE: What are the chances
By kd9280 on 6/8/2010 7:44:02 AM , Rating: 2
It's not that they're lower. It's that they're insignificant.

Using the low end of the bird deaths from hi-rises (according to the American Bird Conservancy) we have just about 100 million deaths annually. The low end of bird deaths from Wind Farms is 10,000 deaths annually. That's 1 death from a wind farm for every 1000 deaths from hi-rises.

Using the high end, it's even more ridiculous, almost 25000 deaths from hi-rises to every 1 death from a wind farm.

All it is is scare tactics and attempting to influence from fear.

RE: What are the chances
By kd9280 on 6/8/2010 7:44:47 AM , Rating: 2
Whoops, math fail - 1 death from wind farms for every 10000 deaths from hi-rises.

RE: What are the chances
By muIIet on 6/8/2010 11:07:13 AM , Rating: 3
I fault Windex not the building.

