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Q+A about Joe Carr; he was Roger Goodell before Roger Goodell was

By Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY

Joe Carr was the NFL's equivalent to Roger Goodell during the league's infancy from 1921-39, when he served as NFL president (Jim Thorpe was president for the inaugural 1920 campaign). Carr presided during a period of uncertainty about the survival of the NFL, underscored by numerous failed franchises and team moves -- from 1920 through 1934, there were 65 different teams that took to the field in the NFL -- and massive business challenges reflected by the Great Depression.

In a biography, Joe F. Carr: The Man Who Built The National Football League (Scarecrow Press), Willis, the NFL Films research chief, details impact that might be lost to history and time. Carr created the NFL's first constitution and by-laws, implemented the standard player contract, wrote the first NFL Record and Fact Book and established the league's championship game, among other achievements.

Willis chatted about Carr and the book recently with USA TODAY's Jarrett Bell:

Q: What inspired you to write the book?

CW: "A few things. One, being affiliated with the NFL, I love the history of the game. I love where we came from. So that era always fascinates me. And the other thing, he's from my hometown. Carr was born in Columbus, Ohio. He grew up there. He had the NFL office there. People back there are astounded by that. 'We had the first NFL office?' Yes, the first NFL headquarters was in Columbus, before Chicago, Philadelphia and New York. He grew up not far from where I did in the south end of Columbus. So those things kind of spurred me to tell his story."

Q: What's the best thing Carr did to ensure the NFL's growth as a major sport?

CW: "He helped move the NFL from small towns to the big city. There's no question, he recruited financially-capable owners to help him. In the '20s, there were a lot of small towns with teams -- one year they'd be there and they would fail because they didn't have the money. He saw that in order for the league to survive, he needed owners in the big cities. He helped recruit the Mara family, the Rooney family -- which still own teams. He helped recruit George Preston Marshall, the longtime owner of the Washington Redskins, and G.A. Richards in Detroit. That's his lasting legacy from those two decades."

Q: What was his worst move, something to regret?

CW: "That one would be -- and there's not a lot of written proof -- the 'gentleman's agreement' that eliminated blacks. Black players were prevalent in the '20s and early '30s with NFL teams (but were barred from 1934 to 1946). That's part of his era. His team in Columbus played against black players before there was a barrier. I don't think there was anything wrong with him, but I think that's one thing he could have done a better job of, to allow the black players to continue to play."

Q: What was the most compelling thing that you learned about Carr?

CW: "The passion that he had for the sport. He was involved in baseball and basketball at the time, too. But for him to put football at the forefront, I think he could see that football needed more guidance than the other sports. And he saw that there would one day be domed stadiums, and that football would be bigger than baseball, when Major League Baseball and college football were much more popular than pro football in the '20s and '30s. To me, that passion always came out in the newspaper stories and the quotes."

Q: Given his position as the NFL's top executive, did you sense any kind of link between Carr and Goodell as you researched the book?

CW: "I certainly felt a link between some of the things Carr was trying to achieve and what the NFL sits on now. Like the 'league-first' mentality among owners. (George 'Papa Bear') Halas and (Tim) Mara gave up some things for the good of the league, like in the establishing the draft. They were getting all the best players, but didn't try to prevent having a draft. So I saw that link. Certain things that they developed during the Carr regime, you can see it now. They still use a Record and Fact Book. Interestingly, though, we're such a media-driven entity now, and Goodell's face is on every TV. Carr worked from behind the scenes. He never wanted the credit, he never wanted to be seen. I had a hard time finding his photos. Now you know who Goodell is, and you see him out front."

Q: If you spin forward to 75 years from now, what will history say about Goodell?

CW: "He's definitely going to make his own mark, which is tough in that type if position. You can't sit there and stand pat. I think that's what Goodell's doing, pushing the envelope. He's doing different things, like moving the draft to prime-time. He didn't have to do anything with the draft. Look at the multiple games in Europe. He'll see how big the game can be, once we get past this labor issue. He'll look at some things where Paul Tagliabue maybe didn't seek to look at. Like having the Pro Bowl during the bye week before the Super Bowl. There's a certain thought processes to pushing and and not letting things sit pat. In 75 years, who knows? This labor agreement might really dictate what happens to him, and how he's viewed in history."

NFL files appeal of judge's rejection on stay
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