Religion in Turkey

Erasing the Christian past

A fine Byzantine church in Turkey has been converted into a mosque

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Readers' comments


Curate's Egg

To those complaining that there are hardly any mosques left in Spain, Greece or Serbia: have you forgotten that these were conquered lands, taken from the Christians by the Muslims?

Of course, one could make the argument that these were all pagan lands at one time in history. The point is, stop playing a victim in an article that factually reports on Islam being a bully yet again.

L6QjhvJGVk in reply to Curate&#039;s Egg

"The point is, stop playing a victim in an article that factually reports on Islam being a bully yet again" - your comment.

Europe and Asia are essentially one large super-continent. Conquests between tribes (and later nations) have been very frequent - for centuries. They became "ideological" after the advent of the 3 Abrahamic religions. These religions poisoned an environment that would have "stabilized" several centuries ago. Rather than blame, Christians, Muslims or Jews, I believe, Mr. Curate, that Abraham is the primary villain. Had he curbed his lust and not f___ked the maid, the world might have been a better place.

Fahrettin Tahir

The AKP does stuff like this to get criticized. Then they can turn to their supporters and say, the people who hate the AKP hate them for opening mosques.

That is how they get the ignorant masses to vote for them.


The Economist continues to repeat the "mildly Islamist" mantra to characterize the AKP. Is all that has happened in the last two months really consistent with "mildness" or "moderation"? What do they need to do to get you to change this convention?

hippodrome in reply to rysio

This point has been made to the Economist for years but the same writers seem to repeat the same clichés over and over again. This can only mean a propaganda with an objective of portraying a party differently than what it really is and serving a certain function.

Omricon in reply to rysio

Its a relative term compared to every other despotic islamic regime. The problem is, out of a scale of 100 the despotic regimes are 95+ and AK is about 80. Mild relatively but not absolutely.


The Turkish state has no business in preserving religious heritage of any sort. Let it crumble and wither away with time.

ArthurCane in reply to George Alexander

No, George Alexander, YOUR comment is utterly ignorant. First of all, the church was the spiritual temple of the indigenous Christian Greek community and used up until the early 1920s. That would mean that it was in use until 90 years ago; not 800 like you say. Since then, the modern Turkish state has been in existence as a secular entity. Hence my comment about the government not interfering in preserving the structure. It has no business nor right or responsibility for its maintenance. And lastly, let us chat about your name.... George Alexander....really?? Did you forget Luis?

Selim Han

@delphiheights: Even former Greek Deputy Prime Minister, Theodoros Pangalos, confessed that Greece has destroyed everything that reminded it of its Ottoman heritage, including thousands of mosques that were built by the Ottomans, and praised Turkey for protecting the churches in its territory.

Pls refer to his article for the Greek daily To Vima...

As for the "genocide" allegations..Pls be more smart..We all know what happened to Ottoman Turks living in Balkans...

Analyticity in reply to Selim Han

Is your claim that two wrongs make a right in this case and that injustices in Greece warrant injustices in Turkey? Can't we just agree that important historical and cultural sites should be preserved, even if they are religious sites of a now minority religion?

Selim Han in reply to Analyticity

I am simply criticising the west' double standard on this issue.

This holy place was a mosque since the 15th century until the 1960s and then it was converted to a museum, now it is a mosque again.

There are many similar conversions in the west e.g. Sveti Sedmochislenitsi Church in Bulgaria which was built by Turks as a mosque in the 16th century but it was converted into a church in 1902.

There are many similar cases of conversions of the once Ottoman mosques into Christian churches but they dont attract media attention!

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

The Muslim Ottoman presence in Greece was a result of military conquest and the relegation of the Christian community as second and third class citizens with no legal rights. In Greece, post-liberation mosques and culture remained as symbols of centuries of hated and despotic rule.
The Christian and Greek presence in Anatolia existed thousands of years before the Turks ever set foot in Istanbul.

delphiheights in reply to Selim Han

@Selim Han: The allegations of genocide are real and have been ratified and acknowledged by many throughout the world, most recently by the New South Wales Legislature in Australia. The truth does smart for holocaust deniers. Additionally, as already stated but not understood the Byzantine basilicas are of prime cultural significance as they represent some of the vestiges of an antecedent culture that is struggling to survive under a regime that stymies all other cultural aspects of such a culture such as the language spoken by the Pontian Greeks in the Black Sea coastal region.

delphiheights in reply to Selim Han


Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

@maljoffre: Anatolia has been inhabited by many people throughout history my friend. Persians,Romans, Assyrians, Kurds etc etc..
You should accept the reality that The Ottoman Empire was once a superpower and it had to expand in order to survive..similar to the Roman Empire and to the British Empire..
So if you had not been conqured you think you would have been the centre of the Renaissance?? funny..You are still a Christian nation and able to speak your native language..There was no despotic rule at all...

guest-llslsel in reply to maljoffre

maljoffre, the Aegean Ethiopian (aka "Greek") nationalist loser, "Christian and Greek presence in Anatolia existed thousands of years before the Turks ever set foot in Istanbul."? Excuse me?

That terrorist cult known as christianity is little over 2 thousand years old. Many would argue less because the current form of it was invented much later on.

Assuming we ignore previous Hun/Avar Turkic presences in Europe, and use 1453 for the baseline for a Turkish presence in Istanbul how do you get "thousands of years" from 1453 - 0 = 1453, and then that's being generous considering Istanbul was not a Christian city from the year 0.

And no, greeks were not in Anatolia for "thousands of years". Greeks were imperialist foreigners in Anatolia and looked at negatively by the Hittites, Lydians, Thracians, Phygrians, Colchians (the prececessors of the Laz who are the true owners of Trabzon (not the Aegean Ethiopian (aka "greek") foreigners).

Sorry but Selim Han was 100 % right in pointing out Western hypocrisy and you were caught. Deal with it.

I would also point out to the damage to mosques in the large swathe of Turkic/Muslim Eurasia/Caucasus that was subjected to "hated and despotic rule" by Orthodox Christians.

Moreoever, the Ottomans were far more tolerant rulers than Christians ever were (see the genocide of 20 million Native Americans).

guest-llslsel in reply to delphiheights

delphiheights the Aegean Ethiopian (greek) nationalist loser, "have been ratified and acknowledged by many throughout the world"? Is this what you tell yourself to help you sleep at night? Rest assured, nobody knows or cares about your pathetic propaganda and your life has been a waste. On the off chance somebody does, I just point out how your ugly evil Christian religion murdered 100 million Native Americans.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

Greeks under Ottoman rule were free to observe their faith, speak their language, maitain their traditions and cultural identity. The Greek maintained their culture during the 400 years of Ottoman reign and this is evidence of the tolerance of the Ottoman Empire over to different people it ruled..

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre


maljoffre in reply to guest-llslsel

Check you math. It's elementary. I said "Christian AND Greek." The Greek city of Byzantium was founded around the 6th Cent BC, which the Greek presence in the present Istanbul at least two thousand years before the Ottoman conquest.

The Greek colonies in " Anodulu" (or whatever it's called now) were the home of pre-Socratic philosophers and culture. "Thousands of years" is right on.

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

The pressure on Christians to convert to Islam were relentless. Christians had no legal standing or rights whatsoever. Churches could not be repaired. Christian-owned property was constantly under the threat of arbitrary confiscation. Boys subject to being drafted into the "Christian-hating" to perhaps slaughter their unknown parents. Christian girls were abducted for as the royal bed chambers.

The reason for the "tolerance" of the Chridtians in the European periphery are two-fold, the minority of "Turks" being one. The biggest factor, however, was that as inducement for conversion to Islam, converts did not pay taxes and large scale conversion would greatly reduce the tax base.

The proof of the pudding is in the reputation and memories that the centuries of occupation left in Europe. Ask the descendants of that occupation what they thought of it. Ask these descendants what cultural, economic and political benefits they think resulted from those centuries of occupation.

maljoffre in reply to maljoffre

Consider whether it is a coincidence that the most backward and corrupt part of Europe today lies in those states occupied by the Ottomans for centuries. "Balkans" is a Turkish word, after all.

What exactly are the cultural and political contributions to Europe by the Turks after some 500 years of Ottoman occupation? Aside from the Donar Kebab, that is.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

Well you are an independent country for the last 200 years. What has been your greatest achievement over these 2 centuries except being corrupt, lazy, tax-avoiding nation? I know one contribution of Greece to the EU, lies and manipulated statistics….

I know Greek students who are counting the days when they will be able to exploit the benefit system in the UK.
The Ancient Greeks no longer exist. The place of Socrates and Aristotle has been taken by lazy and corrupt people…

WcABG in reply to guest-llslsel

"That terrorist cult known as christianity..." excuse me, are you saying we christians are all terrorists now? Maybe we weren't saints in the past (and some of us also have committed atrocities in the name of religion in the more recent past) but can you explain what your co-religionists were doing when they carried out the 11/3 Madrid attacks, the Beslan school hostage crisis, the 2002 Bali bombings and 2005 London bombings? And also perhaps explain the existence of groups like Islam4UK, various Islamic Jihads and last but not least, al-Qaeda? What irks me is how SOME (note I said SOME, not ALL) Muslims continually boast how their religion is superior, more logical, more peaceful, more tolerant etc etc. than Christianity, and yet Christians are directly persecuted in a considerable amount of Muslim countries e.g. Egypt (Copts), Iraq (Assyrians) and Saudi Arabia (totally outlawed) while (although I have to agree to some degree marginalised) for the most part protected by law from direct persecution in Christian majority Western countries. Note that I used SOME, not ALL because I have nothing but respect for moderate Muslims who understand the concept of 'to you your religion, and to me mine'. And re. Christians murdering Native Americans it would be wrong to hold the Christian religion solely responsible for the deaths of millions of native americans, Europeans were trying to expand their empires at that time just like your Ottoman ancestors did and they just happened to be Christians. It was about increasing the size, wealth and influence of their empire. If our ugly evil Christian religion is so despicable that it murdered so many Native Americans, why are most of them Christian today (and I'd like to point out, devout ones as well)? They should be hating on us and cursing at our Christian religion. Just my 2c

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

The "ancient Greeks," Selim Han, are as alive as ever in our western civilization, in our culture, in our politics, in our social institutions, in our daily lives and in our language. That's why they and the subsequent civilizations of the Hellenistic and Byzantine periods are valued in the west and even in Turkey.

What did the Ottomans ever contribute to Europe but destruction, death, pestilence and slavery. Ask yourself why the Christian nations of Europe previously occupied by the Ottomans have such a lingering hatred for that period.

I ask you what have the Ottomans contributed to Europe and your reply is to attack the modern Greeks. That tells you a lot doesn't it?

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

Zeus bless you man.. You are living in the past. Tell me a bit about what the modern greeks are doing now..My greek neighbour has a fish and chips shop..

They hate Turks because they were ruled by Turks. That simple..

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

By force of arms and against great odds, the modern Greeks freed themselves and formed a non-viable land that had been despoiled, isolated and enslaved by four hundred years of Asian-Turkish occupation. They had been denied the most basic rights of human decency and were treated like cattle by an alien culture that had cut them off from all the progressive periods and movements of European civilization. They fought ferociously, win and lose, to create a viable democratic state that, even with the present financial crisis that will be overcome, achieved an enviable quality of life for its citizens, a state that sits with the leading countries of the world in NATO, in the EU and in the eurozone.
All the Balkan states are victims of separation from the mainstream of Europe. They are prone to deceit and corruption. If you want to know the root of Balkan poverty, deceit and corruption, look to the centuries of Asian-Turkish rule, the enslavement and misery that the rest of Europe escaped.
Look everywhere where poor and backward Europe struggles to catch up, and you will see the Turkish foot of history.

delphiheights in reply to Selim Han

Selim Han@Why are you pedalling such falsehoods and lies? Is your self-esteem down? Probably because you're a small-minded Turkish man with too much time to think [backwards that is]. You know of no such students. Name names and provide evidence to back up your nonsense. E.U. stats show that Greek workers do indeed work long hours and don't spend their days like some smoking hookahs and worrying about the breeding habits of their goats.

IIV in reply to maljoffre

The blood of the Hittites who invented steel flows through the veins of every Turk as does the blood of every Anatolian civilization.

So stop being such an ethno facist.

maljoffre in reply to IIV

Whatever " blood" flows through the veins of Turks or anyone else is ultimately of no consequence since we all belong to the same species (by "blood" I may be more "Turkish" than you are). The discussion here is not about "blood" but culture. You are the only one to have made that connection. The correlation between blood and culture is, of course, a central tenet of fascism.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

Greek school history books are written by the church, the media and the nationalists, we all know this. And there are no alternative text books for a eight year old primary school pupil. That’s why one could hear this same copy paste argument (i.e. civilazition vs. barbarians) from other average greeks. The greek should stop living in the past and face the current reality.

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

I am not referring to Greek textbooks with which, not being able to read Greek, I am unfamiliar. My references can be checked out in generally accepted history texts and other evidence from broad and international sources. Any disagreement with my statements should also be based on similarly established sources.

It should be easy for you to access texts listing the contributions that centuries of Ottoman occupation contributed to the culture and civilization of Europe. I am keen to learn what they are. Thank you for your help.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

Book - The Ottoman Empire and Early Modern Europe, Daniel Goffman
Book - Ottoman Civilization, Gunsel Renda, Halil İnalcık refer to Ottoman Empire sections.

Read books of Greek historian, Elizabeth A.Zachariadou, who is expert on Ottoman History. You will be so suprised but I am pretty sure you won't have a look. It is so difficult for the Greek to overcome their biases..

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

Thanks for the references. You have, of course, completely avoided or misunderstood my point. I never said that Muslim religion and culture was not rich in art, science and every other aspect of civilization since it clearly was. Nor did I say that the Ottoman culture itself did not consist of many aspects of that rich civilization, foreign to Europe. My question is what did the long Ottoman occupation of Europe contribute to European culture and civilization? I can think of nothing and you have not refered to anything. It was an alien and antagonistic culture. Beyond that, even the rich civilization of Islam made minimal contribution to western culture. The two, in fact, as Huntington said, represent a "clash" of civilizations.

My point is not to demean Ottoman-Turkish culture and civilization. My point is that it was totally alien to Europe in every way and further that, in those parts of Europe that it dominated (the Balkans), the Ottomans had a destructive affect and left behind an impoverished and backward region separated from its European heartland. It is no coincidence that those Balkan states, Slovenia and Croatia, that had the lesser Ottoman control are the ones closest in every way to their European constructs.


As a descendant of Pontian Greeks from Trabazon I find the conversion sickening and an absolute incursion into a unhealable wound. This wound being the genocide of Pontians in this area of Asia Minor. It certainly seems that with the rattling of the Ottoman scimitar by Erdogan during the past decade [most recently ranging from passing anti-alcohol legislation during obscure hours of the day to the appalling treatment of demonstrators in central Istanbul]the movement of Neo-Ottomanisation of a secular society is underway. Greeks should respond in kind at this outrage of a Christian and cultural site by pressing the arm of the United Nations which overseas the protection and preservation of important cultural world icons. Don't both Aghia Sophia basilicas at least deserve this?

guest-llslsel in reply to delphiheights

As a fellow Caucasian to the Laz, the descendants of the Colchians and the true owners of Trabzon, I can only say "good riddance" to the foreign imperialist Greek occupiers of the Colchian/Laz/Kartvelian city of Trabzon. LOL, "genocide of Pontians"? Please, LOL! The funny thing is you're probably a Greek-American occupying land TRULY taken away from Native American Indians who TRULY had genocide committed against them (20 million). My Colchian/Laz brothers merely sent you back to Aegean Ethiopia (Greece). You should be thanking them if anything.

delphiheights in reply to guest-llslsel

guest-liisel@You arguments are off the topic; the article deals with the cultural despoiling of an important site. Furthermore, your assumptions are incorrect and your comments regarding the Greek genocide show you to be perhaps a genocide denier. Are you? As regards your Colchian roots it is fortunate for you that the Greeks at the very least Hellenised the barbarian otherwise you may have struggled to write the nonsensical diatribe you have presented here.


are you for real?? how many mosques left in Andulucia?? Greece?? Bulgaria??Serbia?? enough of this orientalist, narrow minded comments!! oopps!! of course you westerns are the most "tolarent", "democratic" societies so that gives you the right to tell only one side of the story. By the way the comments of "wanna be westerns" do not represent of Turkish people and are not necesarily true!!

BeamMeUp in reply to yasir56

Those mosques were destroyed at a time when there was little appreciation for different cultures and diversity, and ultra-nationalism reigned supreme. Would the same thing happen today? I doubt it. But what happened with Haghia Sophia at Trabzon in the name of Islam is reminiscent of what to the Buddhas of Bamiyan in Afghanistan, which were destroyed in 2001 by the Taliban.

When are you going to learn to co-exist with people of different (or no) religious beliefs and treat them as equals?

ybe9eQauGH in reply to BeamMeUp

You are misrepresenting the facts. Mosques are being attacked in Europe, particularly in The Netherlands, as well as Palestine.

When will you appreciate that people may have deeper and more solid moral principles than yours? When you will learn how to respect and co-exist with them?

BeamMeUp in reply to ybe9eQauGH

No response to treating people of different beliefs as equals? Even when Moslem countries were not persecuting non-Moslems, they were still treating them like second-class citizens. (Christian Europe's history of intolerance has certainly been worse, as shown its long history of anti-Judaism that led to the Nazi Holocaust.)

guest-llslsel in reply to BeamMeUp

BeamMeUp, since you seem to think they have so much "appreciation for different cultures and diversity" and ultra-nationalism doesn't reign supreme anymore, what's keeping them from giving the mosques back or rebuilding them? So Turkiye gets punished for NOT doing what petty Anddulucian/Balkan Christians did?

Also, comparisons to Taliban are laughable. Aside from the Pashtun Taliban being the indigenous people of the country they live in and therefore being the only ones with the right to decide what or what isn't allowed to exist in their country, have no fear that Trabzon's glorious mosque will be put to good use. :)

BeamMeUp in reply to guest-llslsel

Petty Anddulucian (sic)/Balkan Christians? Sounds rather judgmental. But then you go on in your reference to the Taliban about them having the right to decide "what or what isn't allowed to exist in their country". It sound to me like you don't subscribe to the idea of followers of all beliefs (or no religious beliefs) being treated as equals and coexisting together.

Here in America, we've been throwing of the yoke of Christian dominance. When you here about the Christian right in American complaining about their inability to mandate school prayer or the teaching of creationism, they call themselves victims. They're really yearn for the "good-old-days" when people of alternative lifestyles (gays, lesbians, transgenders) stayed in the closet, and people of non-Christian beliefs just kept quiet while Christians treated them like second-class citizens.

Where's Ataturk when you need him?

I.C.C. in reply to yasir56

Yasir, you do not help our campaigns to get a mosque opened and functioning in Athens by converting churches into mosques in Turkey. The no. of mosques in Greece is quite large because of Western Thrace, but there are no officially funcioning mosques in Athens, which is a disgrace. Iannis.

Selim Han

Well there is not even a single mosque in Athens/Greece at the moment and people pray in apartment flats..Furthermore they use the mosques built during the Ottoman era as storage spaces etc..At least this holy place is used for its original purpose, to pray to God..

delphiheights in reply to Selim Han

Selim Han there are many mosques in Greece at the moment. Of course they are disused and not occupied. Where Ali Pasha and his forerunners wielded their despotic power they lie in their natural ruinous state being weathered by nature. There are a couple of salient points to be made here firstly, where these mosques lie in ruin they represent a hallmark of territorial incursions to the Byzantine residents. Hence, a congruous and similar argument can be applied to the basilicas of the Aghia Sophias as they predate Ottoman rule. Hence, their cultural and historical significance requires they not only be conserved but also not be disrespected by being converted into a place for the Muslim faith. Secondly, the architecture of the Byzantine basilicas one would say has shown robustness and longevity over the ages, whereas those mosques in Greece have as I have stated badly weathered and are even beyond conservation.

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

There are a large number of mosques to serve the Muslim community in northern Greece which the Lausanne treaty left intact during the population exchange between Turkey and Greece in 1922. At that time, there were some 30 thousand Muslims in northern Greece. Now they number well over a hundred thousand. In 1922 there were well over 300,000 Greeks in and around Istanbul. After pogroms, expropriations, theft of property, closing of religious school and ethnic cleansing, there is now only an ageing community of less than 2,000 Greeks which is on the verge of extinction after having lived in the area over two thousand years before the Turks arrived.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

The Turks of Greece diappeared suddenly during the Greek Independence War. According to the historian C.M. Woodhouse, the entire Turkish population of cities and towns were collected and marched out to convenient places in the countryside where they were slaughtered.

Well I can give you very different numbers but there is no point in doing this now..We should live with our past.

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

The war of Independence in Greece, which included the death of "Turkish" (most were in fact converts) civilians, was a result of a war fought to expel and destroy a hated occupier. They were in no small measure reprisals for the treatment the Christians had met under a long and culturally alien occupation.
The past, as we see in this article about the destruction of a Christian cultural treasure, is still with us.

rysio in reply to maljoffre

"They were in no small measure reprisals for the treatment the Christians had met under a long and culturally alien occupation": This is precisely the kind of rhetoric used to justify Srebrenica.

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

None of the Muslims in Greece were invited there. They are illegal migrants, destitute people who place political, social and economic strains on a poor country.
The Greeks would prefer they all left if it were possible, that they return to Turkey through which they came illegally, assisted often by Turkish authorities. They are neither welcome nor wanted. Their illegal presence has even encouraged the rise of the fascist and racist right.
To the Greeks, the long period in their history when they were enslaved to Muslim overlords is one of the most bitter in their collective memory. That the bringing back of a mosque in the capital has met such opposition should not surprise anyone who knows even the least about the country. The Greeks deserve a lot of credit for facing such a contentious and bitter issue head-on and with the sympathy of the government and large parts of the population.

Selim Han in reply to maljoffre

We welcome those muslims from that poor country to Turkey which is a rising economic star. We have enough space and strong economy to support them.

They are all invited to the opening ceremony of Ayasofya Mosque in Istanbul which will happen shortly...

maljoffre in reply to Selim Han

A mosque in Athens is far less a contentious issue than would be the return of St Sophia in Istanbul to a Christian Orthodox church. How would that go down in Turkey?

To the historical memory of many Greeks, a mosque is a hated symbol of oppression.

Can Kuzu

Mr Erdogan and his ilk have no understanding of culture or heritage. When there is the chance of a quick buck, even Ottoman heritage is torn down.


Is it not about time to stop using 'mildly Islamic' or 'moderate Islam' terms? These words do not mean anything but used as propaganda. They certainly do not describe the AKP policies of Islamisation of Turkey. Tolerant and democratic they are not and always fail to understand the importance of art and culture unless it is only one type of religious culture - Sunni Islam.
Turkey will be going back into dark ages more and more unless the secular republican values are reinstated.

rysio in reply to hippodrome

I wonder whether this is The Economist's editorial policy, or the correspondent's? Amberin Zaman isn't stupid. She has herself been targeted for attacks by the AKP's allies. Doesn't she think it's time to stop using this language?


All I can say is the sooner Erdogan and his 'mildly' Islamic AK party is out the better for Turkey...

maljoffre in reply to orinocco

Yes, masterfully done. The Turkic nomadic tribes that migrated from the steppes of Mongolia towards the Mediterranean excelled at the pillaging and destruction of the cultures and nations they came across along the way. It was not until these tribal hordes came into contact with the established Byzantine-Roman civilization of the Mediterranean and were prevented from further occupying Europe past Vienna that they began to evolve into a western culture into which the present dynamic country of Turkey is still and constantly developing.



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