Sad news on the FFRF site.

It shows us how harmful religion and dogma can be. 




Catholic Church's heavy hand weighs down the Irish
November 19, 2012

By Annie Laurie Gaylor
FFRF Co-President

Last week I wrote a blog about the heavy hand of the Catholic Church upon women in the Philippines. Two days later came news of the horrifying and unnecessary death of a young, professional Indian woman living in Galway. Savita Halappanavar died after an incomplete miscarriage, denied a life-saving abortion because in predominantly Catholic Ireland the hospital was too cowardly to save her life.

Even though Ireland’s constitution bans abortion, a 1992 Supreme Court ruling was issued permitting abortion when the woman’s life is at risk.

Savita’s pregnancy was wanted. She wasn’t seeking an abortion, she was seeking medical intervention to complete a miscarriage. The hospital, afraid of Catholic criticism, held back, waiting for the fetus to die on its own. Thus, in the name of saving an already doomed fetal life, a woman’s life was lost as well. Savita, a married dentist, was pronounced dead Oct. 28, after a week of suffering. Dying of blood septicemia (blood poisoning) is one of the most gruesome and painful of deaths.

Read the rest here.

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Replies to This Discussion

Thank you Joan. I agree with your statement and especially: "If we continue to treat other people as badly as the religious communities have, we are doomed beyond doubt."

Just look at the religious people you know and their behavior. How do they treat others?

Actions speak louder than words. What do their actions tell you?

True, Religion only has DOGMA, not ethics.

Yet, there are many forms of Ethics in some we refer to as Universal Ethics though they could be called Western oriented Ethics which many in the Western society hold as valuable, many of these are supported by groups such as the U.N. and Western aid organizations, then there are cultural ethics that differ with each society. 

Basically ethics of a culture are derived from the way the children are raised and indoctrinated into these ethics.  Ethics in Iran are often markedly different to ethics in France many of these ethics have a religious basis, but, since the inhabitants were raised within that ethical framework, their ethical basis, which appears archaic and non-humanistic to us, appear to them as common sense and correct.

Much of the dislike for USA and the Western world by even the general population of countries like Iran and even parts of Asia is Westerners imposing their foreign ethical framework over their religious based deeply ingrained dogma framework.

Ethics is malleable, it changes with society and is based on social consensus.

Though, not necessarily of the majority but of those in positions of power to enforce control.

Educating the general population of these countries to the tragedy of their dogmas when compared to advanced Western, humanist ethics is extremely difficult and can result in backlashes, especially from the usurpers (government/dictatorship) that need the dogmas to maintain control over their sheep.

Such that dictatorships are removing their countries from the Internet, cutting off communications avenues and limiting access to news services and books to shield their inhabitants from such lessons and knowledge.  This appears to be happening in Iran at the moment.  Yes, the regime is frightened of secular humanism and closing the doors to outside influences.

Though we will need to find a way to undermine their attempts to re-indoctrinate the entire population to their dogmas.

Secularism must find a way, for the sake of the humanistic rights of the Iranian population.

Because, dogma is even dangerous in small amounts.

It causes pain, misery and even kills.

As we have found within Irish Catholic Hospitals.

Yet, like Iran, even the Usurpers (priests, Cardinals and Pope) of Catholicism may attempt to close the doors on Sectarian Humanism, but, because they cannot isolate a disparate, widely spread flock, they are vulnerable to our attacks.

So let's hit them low and hard!!!  

Aye M8z! 

G'Day! apart from question of westren and eastren ethics, our fight with religious social structures like Iran and Even mine in Pakistan is of stagenency. Religious ethics don't change with time. What Mr. Holly So and So said is perfect for all coming times? Can a child or a women living in todays world of internets and cell phones, working  alongwith men can be subjected to ethical codes of societies of thousands of years earlier. It is rediculous.Her environment and needs are totaly different from women of those societies. At least etics should be in line with todays social needs.

It is only possible if religious code of life are abolished. Let the need decide the ethics, wether eastren or westren.

You are correct G'Day - religion has only Dogma - no ethics. I agree.

I realize you live in Pakistan, and when I looked up Islamabad I saw many Mosques in the city, yet I also realize you made contact with us at Atheist Nexus. Knowing you are an educated man, and may be in conflict with your country's laws am I out of line to ask you about your status regarding religion?

Joan! I am an open athiest for last 14 years or so. Being open in a closly netted religious society means everyone in the surroundings knows it and it also means being in conflict with whole of the society. Being a stubern critic of religon I often face resistance even within the family sometimes. Sometimes feeling of alienation and lonliness creeps in but as they say, knowledge is one way traffic. You can't go back to religious trash after understanding life on atomic and molecular bases.

I don't know the facts about you or your country. However, it seems you came to atheism through education; is that correct?
I assume your resistance comes from loved ones and friends, and in addition you have your religious and political influences working against you. How do you manage?
If my questions are too personal, just say so; I will not be offended.
I experience religion as ... I can't think of anything positive so I will write nothing.
Oh yes I will! I experience religion as crippling, stifling, limiting, oppressive, out of touch with how to live a happy life, and I will go so far as to write "disgusting".

Joan do feel at home to ask anything. I came to athieism through a teacher who taught English at college I studied. I read Litrature and then philosophy under his influence. Being a science student basically it didn't took long to break religious shakels.

In Pakistan athiests have no physical threat of any sort at all. But psychologically it is very difficult. People are emotionally attach to the religion. While going to work, just out of nothing you see hate in a passerby's eyes saying like"oh not him, it is a bad morning". At home you notice your father, wife, uncles and aunts takinking special care to teach religion to your children, telling them not to be like their father. Silance on you entering a gathering.

Its ok in the begining when you are young and energatic but when this sort of things happens year after year, you become weary. Feel bored at it wishing if they can behave normally for a day or two.

Amer - you are right. Religions have no ethics.

Amer, what do you think it will take to guarantee the right of women in your culture to be able to make decisions for themselves, support themselves, and be an equal partner in marriage?
I know I am asking a lot, but where do you begin? Do you have daughters? How do you feel about women, even your mother, wife, or daughters?

Joan! I have three sons. My wife says she is fed up of guns and balls and wishes to buy froks and dolls but.. My mother was a teacher with a very energetic, social and dominant personality. I grew up in a female dominated home.

Unfortunatly most of women are not like her in this country. Religion and inheritance laws under influence of religion practically make a woman an object instead of a human which is property of men. Situation is verse than it apparently looks because poor women accept it as normal. When I was young I use to fight this behaviour vigorusly but now I feel Only way out is education and economic independance of women. Things had improved in families where women are working. Things are improving but at a very slow rate. With base of economic independance one can fight religious influence. Without it, even concerned party is not intrested.

Just had a fun argument with a devout Catholic who tried to prove to me that the Bible is not misogynistic.


I warned him not to use those passages he threatened to use, as it would backfire against him.

He used them and yes, they backfired, because they are themselves misogynistic.

They use terms like "office of husband" (misogynistic, nobody holds office in an equal relationship); "Peter tells women to be submissive", (misogynistic, nobody should have required submissiveness in an equal relationship";  and "boys get visions, old men get dreams, while both get prophesy, (misogynistic, because the males are favored, thus it doesn't display equality).

Yes, the bigoted Catholic asshole got jarred big time, since I did warn him.

He evidently couldn't see why I warned him, which shows him as not being very intelligent either.

He cannot ever win such an argument as the Bible is severely infected with misogyny!

Aye M8z!    :D     :D     


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