

Turkey and the army

Military meddles

The battle with the AK government continues

See article

Readers' comments



Islamci in reply to Islamci

SO ECONOMIST, is what I summarized above the “absurd and cruel extreme” OR asking university students to take off their Islamic headscarves before going to class the “absurd and cruel extreme”.

First of all, you need to learn that in most cases it’s the men in the girls’ families who demand that the girls wear the Islamic outfits. In fact, it was reported years ago that PM Erdogan’s wife was told to cover up by her older brother when she turned 15 and she reportedly was very saddened and depressed by his demand.

Maybe the Brits are getting upset that foreign born citizens have doubled in less than 20 years with the Labour’s open door policy and now nearly half of the Brits want to emigrate to other countries ie Australia, US, Canada.

Could it be that minimum of 85 Sharia courts in UK (yes, minimum number) aren’t enough?? But don’t see any Brit wanting to emigrate to any of your typical Islamist countries.


ECONOMIST: “Secular zeal was carried to absurd, sometimes cruel extremes. Female university students wearing the Islamic headscarf were lured into “persuasion rooms” where they were told to take them off before going to class.”

So are the Turkish women are better off now under AKP ??
Let me start where I left off last time.

Under AKP hundreds of thousands of women left the workforce; Turkey ranked 123 among130 countries in world gender equality index; violence against women increased 1400% since 2002; reports indicate 4 out of 10 women are regularly beaten by their husbands and every day five women are killed by men; sadly more than one-third of the women think it’s OK to be beaten by their husband. The latter may have to do with Islamist mentality or lack of education, which is about 5.5 years for adults in Turkey.

Of course that’s not enough to fulfill Islamists’ demented and troubling thoughts and desires. Reported claims on an Islamist website in Turkey include that in heaven, each guy will get at least 72 virgins, have permanent erections, and women will always be virgins. If real “pious” lifestyle, promise of even more virgins in heaven; that should make the pious generation PM Erdogan wants to create very happy and well prepared.

Such nonsense only adds to already misogynic behavior in the real world where women are seen as sex objects to cover up and also sex objects to benefit from when in heaven.

So in the Islamist world poor and unfortunate women go from being abused in the real world to being abused after death.

The only missing link – necrophilia !! Maybe the Turkish parliament can adopt the recent proposal at the Islamist Egyptian parliament: a husband should be allowed to have sex with the dead wife’s corpse.

Islamci in reply to Islamci

Now to the military
The 1980 coup led by Kenan Evren was necessary due to the absolute chaos, daily assassinations, almost non-existing government etc. The government or what was left of it was even warned of an upcoming coup months in advance.

However, in my opinion how it was all handled afterwards was a failure strategically and administratively. I do not agree with the executions, mass imprisonments, or most importantly the support of Islamism in some misguided way to fight communism post coup. It reminds me of US involvement in Afghanistan in the 1980s and support of mujahidden to fight Soviet Union, which was followed by strong emergence of Islamists in that country.

But let’s get to the real issue here.

A major aspect of Ataturk’s modernization reforms during the formation of Turkish republic was the removal of religion from politics, judicial system, and education. An AKP man, once second in charge, summarized Islamists’ thoughts real well when he claimed that “Turks experienced trauma with Ataturk's western reforms.” He was being honest except he confused the Islamists with Turks.

The Turkish military has been the guardians of this secularist foundation. Hence the current suppression of the military means only one outcome … further Islamization of Turkey.

Fahrettin Tahir

The Ergenekon case rests on the assumption that there is an Ergenekon organisation and the jailed people are members of that organisation.

In 5 years of trial, neither could be proven. The imagined Ergenekon organisation would be something like an Islamist brotherhood, only secularist. Turkish secularists are not organisaed on that basis so it is no wonder that nothing can be proven.

The Sledgehammer case is based on anonymously delivered documents. On 1500 points these documents have been demonstrated do be forgeries. Instead of discussing the authenticity of the documents and prosecuting the forgers, the court ahs decided to end all such discussion.

The 1980 coup ended a civil war, the whole country said thank God. 30 years later the AKP is using the case to prosecut people for imagined crimes which in any case fall under the 20 years time limit for heavy crimes.

The 1997 event where the national security council, a military -civilian council, decided to act to defend the secular state was to protect the still valid secular constitution. It was entirely legal. Some the people who now are the AKP, like president GUL actually signed the decisions at that date.

knowitwonka in reply to Fahrettin Tahir

No offense, but I think if you go to war with Syria it will be because your PM thinks he is the neo-Sultan of the neo-Ottoman empire. In many many many many ways he reminds me of Hitler.

No offense to Turks as a country, just warning you that imo you are following a mad man just because of short-medium term successful economic policies.


for the first paragraph of the article....
i remember the days when very ''bold islamic'' Refah party and thier lovely Erbakan was in power late 90s with the votes 21.4%, which is btw the actual vote rate of Tayyibans if there is no arab money and the help of masters of Tayyibans. i remember iran was so very welcomed in turkey that the officials of the embassy of iran daily used to hand out some manifestos of sheria in streets or apartments of istanbul, i remember the embassy of iran would attended in a celebrity in a ''theatre'' for ''palestinians'' (actually for sharia) in north turkey. i remember some words of Erbakan like the one '' there will be revolution, but with blood or without blood''. i remember many arabian clothed men would chant on the dums of Beyazit mosques in istanbul with green flags on fridays. i remember men in arabian clothes and women in black ''sheets'' walking in streets. i remember how Tayyibans then ''used''(still) describe the west and non-muslims(especially jews). The only powers that could stop them was the military due to some laws and the Turkish Constitutional Court. the party was banned and the members of it applied to the ECHR, however, they were disappointed with the result, cuz ''On July 10, 2001, a Chamber of the Court found that there had been no violation of the applicants’ freedom of association in the Refah case.'' this is a normal result, cuz the europian countries witnessed how a party and a authoritarian man could make trouble for his country and other countries. so today
in Turkey the courts of Tayyibans and their ally Gülen movement try to punish the people who stop another hitler like threat; it is crazy, cuz who would like to judge and punish the people who judged the hitler followers for their terrible actions?
...i also remember when Tayyibans promised that they were changed, they were not like the past; but now we are seeing their real faces,those promises were just some words to get and keep power; in the last election tayyibans aired many tape records of the opponent parties to make them weak in the election, this is their real faces. today their motivation is to seem good to the minorities in order to keep the bless of their foreign masters; to be more specific about their masters i would like to give an example, the tayyibans criticize Israel no matter what, however, the same tayyibans has allowed to set up a nato(u.s.) shield against iran to protect the same israel( personelly i am ok with that), and btw it is iran that is a muslim country; but as i said those tayyibans do anything to keep power. Today their another motivation is to wipe out any thing to do with secularism or to be seen a ''threat'' in future; cuz they know in the democracy they will not be in power forever, and therefore they try to save their future; for example , i can tell you that the ergenekon or other cases will not end up till the next election; and after the election there will be some punishment for the rest alive ones, as you know people whom The economist call ''jail birds'' started to die in jail without knowing thier crime or conviction.
... i also remember that there was no problem of headscarf untill Tayyibans and their lovely Erbakan started to use islam in political arena. That is the crucial point, cuz whatever bad happens to Turkey(or muslim dominated countries) happens due to those people who use islam in political arena. That could be ok in the west, but imagine it with a country of people with very poor education, if any.

The next American fiasco

Since making Turkey confront Iran is a US policy, let us review Anglo-US policy.

At the beginning the Middle East except Iran was Ottoman Empire, run by the Turks. When oil was becoming significant, the British took away the Oil countries and invented Saudi Arabia and the Sheikhdoms of the Gulf. Typically the oil rich regions had a Shiitic population, the British installed Kingdom was Sunnitic and needing British support to keep their Kingdoms did as they were told. Oil was pumped out, plentiful and cheap, the revenue invested in Britain and the USA.

When a democratic government of Iran tried to nationalize the Iranian oil, it was overthrown and replaced by the dictatorship of the Shah.

In the 1970ies and 80ies the US supported Islamists in Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Later all three become American headaches. First Saddam was used to bleed Iran, then Iraq was invaded to steal the oil, and became a huge fiasco, falling in the hands of the Shiitic majority, allied with Iran.

Would the US recognize that colonialist policies as they want are no longer possible? No. They thought up the next step which is make the Sunnites fight their war with Iran. Since Turkey is the only sunnitic country which has the power to check Iran, that means installing people in power in Turkey who will- so the US hopes- fight Iran. Turkish secularists would have reminded Washington that they have been living in peace with Iran since 1639.

As a matter of fact Turkish Islamists are no better for the US than the others. Even as they now initiate a new wave of prosecution, the Islamist press portrays the military as a Jewish controlled organization. The 1997 coup, so they say, was done by Jews, so Israel could rob Turkey of hundreds of billions dollars.

This is the next American fiasco in the making.

Adnan Soysal in reply to Kursato

There is also huge economic success behind his popularity.
He increased the standards of life of middle class..
He knows the dynamics of free market.
And, economy is an area that NATIONAL-SOCIALIST bureaucracy tribe is as distant as stars. Therefore, their dominance in Turkeys administration has always been blocking the wealth of the common citizen.

Adnan Soysal

Erdogan is teaching civilization to peoples enemy, NATIONAL-SOCIALIST bureaucracy tribe.
- Military
- Academy (State University)
- Judiciary
and to their advocates.

They have never been respecting the political will of people since 1950, when the first free elections took place.
Always blocking the administration of the civil government,
sometimes directly toppling off it by military coup.

And this NATIONAL-SOCIALIST bureaucracy tribe had only one concern:
Keep on ripping off the state treasury,
and preserving their privileges on countries assets by using state power.

People were sick and tired of them.
Therefore Erdogan is a hero in the eyes of people receiving %50 of the votes.


Both the 'sledgehammer' and Ergenekon cases are a farce and show how much influence the Government exerts on the Turkish judiciary. The protection of the defendants of the 'Deniz Feneri' case and the protection afforded to the head of MIT adds to ludicrous state of Turkish judiciary. All of this happening while elected members of parliament still are held in custody without charge.

These events and the recent outburst by Mr.Erdogan demanding all theatres be privatised clearly show that the current government is on a witch hunt of everything that has to do with the Turkish republic and Kemal Ataturk and instead expressing the virtues of Ottoman values.


I would like to congratulate Economist for writing an article about Turkey that does not include some irrelevant paragraph about Israel.

Fahrettin Tahir in reply to knowitwonka

I should have thought it was quite obvious that I am not following Mr Erdogan. he would never have come to power without American meddling and would be rapidly gone without the heav pressure the Anglo British alliance is applying on the Turkish military. In 2007 there was an article in the Economist threatening turkey with bankruptcy if Mr E is overthrown.
Hitler was working on his own. Mr Erdogan is not.
His so called economic success is the West and the Arab oil Kings pumping in money so that he can buy support and serve them.


Many of the Founding Fathers of the United States were suspicious of standing militaries. As Samuel Adams wrote in 1768, "Even when there is a necessity of the military power, within a land, a wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and jealous eye over it".

Even more forceful are the words of Elbridge Gerry, a delegate to the American Constitutional Convention, who wrote that "standing armies in time of peace are inconsistent with the principles of republican Governments, dangerous to the liberties of a free people, and generally converted into destructive engines for establishing despotism."

In Federalist No. 8, one of the Federalist Papers documenting the ideas of some of the Founding Fathers, Alexander Hamilton worried that maintaining a large standing army would be a dangerous and expensive undertaking. In his principal argument for the ratification of the proposed constitution, he argued that only by maintaining a strong union could the new country avoid such a pitfall.

Using the European experience as a negative example and the British experience as a positive one, he presented the idea of a strong nation protected by a navy with no need of a standing army. The implication was that control of a large military force is, at best, difficult and expensive, and at worst invites war and division. He foresaw the necessity of creating a civilian government that kept the military at a distance.

Hitler was elected and then established a dictatorship. He was first very popular thanks to his economic successes, and would have been elected with agreat majority if he had bothered holding elections. He controlled the press, the judiciary, the universities, everything.

He then started a war to increase his power, claiming the Poles had attacked his country. He devastated his country. 50 million people died. Germany was invaded and partitioned. It took 50 years to repair the damage.

He hated Jews.


What a strange article. You start off rather well and then you stick on a bit at the end about Mr Erdogan's potential lack of democratic credentials. It lacks the balance you would expect from the Economist. Intellectually you may be right about the history of the Army in Turkey, but not emotionally and above all, Turks are a deeply emotional people. There is a link with it that would not be possible in other countries that the Army has had a strong presence;Argentina, Chile, Burma.... The cornerstone of modern Turkey is exactly that secularism you seem to denigrate. Without it, the country would not be where it is today.The Erdogan/Fetullah combo seek to roll back the years and grab as huge a slice of wealth as they can before the pretence of moderation is revealed as what it really is and the (small i) islamic Republic is firmly established, with no place for Mr Ataturk. Between the rock of the green electorate, the EU and the fact that 'the times, they are achanging', the Army does not have the power it once had and therefore less of a threat. It will probably never climb to the commanding heights of yesteryear, much less grab as much of the budget for its own purposes. Reform a la Erdogan is not as much about the good of the country as it is about self enrichment and revenge. How did he become so amazingly rich and own/become a major shareholder in prominent corporations? Why would you ignore the rule of law and throw people in prison without charges or trial? Is this what he was elected to do? The Opposition leader got it right. It is about revenge and now we will see the reality. The problem for the opposition is they had their chance in control and fluffed it.


Europe has been instrumental in the transformation of Turkey and its relative success in the same way that they influenced post-communist E.Europe. AKP balancing act between West & the primitive urges of radical, political Islam has so far been managed skillfully.

Its going to be difficult to keep up, though. The AKP recipe will become sterile and there will be legal opposition to it. Corruption will inevitably enter into its dealings. They only have to look to Iran to see the future risk - a military,clerical dictatorship that has no legitimacy,a kleptocracy.

Europe itself is experiencing severe strain. So both Europe & Turkey could both see diminished democracy. A legal oppositon would be a good thing for the AKP as well. Since if they truly have found the right model it will be strengthened by a challenge.

Historically, all over the world, religion & governance have been a dangerous fallacy. Could a Kurd become PM of Turkey? Could a woman? could a Christian? No matter how competent - clearly not. I only see their program eventually failing and the party deteriorating into a mirror image of its current enemy.

Although Europe has had many Christian Democratic groups , without the long and valuable contribution of (secular) Euro-socialism its doubtful that Europe would have advanced so far. I can't see Islam acting as a substitute, no matter how moderate.

You only have to look at the US to see how religous forces can weaken a society and rob it of its dynamism.


Turkey can only be a stable country if secular Turks become more religious, and religious Turks become more secular.
Only then can Turkey be a true world power.

Fahrettin Tahir

by no coincidence this most massive prosecution of military personnel is happening at the point where the Erdogan regime is moving towards war over Syria, not only with Syria but possibly with Iran and Russia and a confrontation with Iran.

In 1991 when the then president of Turkey ordered the generals to invade Iraq to help the USA they said no.

The prosecution is supposed to intimidate the military leadership into fighting wars which would be devastating for Turkey and which only serve the interests of US colonialism in the Middle East.

Wars which Turkish secularists do not want, which religious Turks do not want, wars which only serve to make the leadership of the AKP popular in Washington.

Well, I should have though 'troublemaker' is part of what good journalism is all about. It's all about stirring things up.

As for the cheapness of the article, of course it's cheap. You downloaded a draft version for free. Try purchasing the print version after editorial revisions and you might change your mind.


Latest blog posts - All times are GMT
The crisis in Venezuela: Another day, more bodies
Americas view March 13th, 16:49
A tribute to Robert Ashley: A perfect life
Prospero March 13th, 16:22
Commodities and the economy: Copper bottomed
Buttonwood's notebook March 13th, 15:58
Germany's Hoeness trial: Uli goes to jail
Charlemagne March 13th, 14:18
El Salvador's election: An extraordinary result
Americas view March 13th, 14:13


Products & events