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#94 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I don't get it, abortion shouldn't, forgive me, MUST NOT, ever become illegal...   
Mistakes happen, RAPE happens. No one wants to be forced to raise the child they have no time, ability or even love for. And no child deserves to be raised by incompetent idiot or by unloving parent.

User avatar #289 to #94 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
I personally believe the only circumstance where an abortion would be okay is if it would kill the mother.
Yes, if a woman is impregnated by a rapist, that would be terrible, and she certainly doesn't deserve to bare the pain of child birth; no woman should be punished for the actions of a rapist; but neither should the baby.
The woman would feel a lot of pain, but the odds are, she wouldn't die. And if she doesn't want to raise it, she can just put it up for adoption.
That's just my opinion though.
User avatar #295 to #289 - shannonrw (01/18/2014) [-]
I disagree, because a woman who is impregnated by her rapist usually faces severe emotional trauma from having to carry the rapist's child for nine months, being reminded of the rape every day for nine months is just one reason for this. I'd like to not really get into it, but making a raped woman carry the child is actually evil and very cruel. I would never wish that upon anyone.
User avatar #296 to #295 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
I understand that.
#292 to #289 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
As I fully respect it, besides that "would kill a girl/women" part, let's just skip to the adoption part since I am currently more interested in it.

We lack kids for adoption? I don't know where you come from, but at my country kids that don't get adopted are ****** (and not in a nice way), and a lot of them don't get adopted. Less then 10% get lucky enough to be adopted.
User avatar #298 to #292 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
Still better then no chance at all at a happy and fulfilling life.
#299 to #298 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
That is just one side of the argument, when everything is considered, I would not dare make abortion illegal.
User avatar #300 to #299 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
I would only have abortions legal as serious medical procedures where the women's life is in danger. All other events you are destroying a human life out of convenience, and that should be illegal. The argument of, "well they'll grow up unwanted and become violent', or they are the product of rape, hold no bearing. No one should be held accountable for their fathers sins and their mothers mistakes.
#304 to #300 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I would extend it to the rape part. Here's a little story:

Say I am a 24 year old girl (I am not even going to be unfair and start this story as 10 year old girl), finishing my college, just got a great offer for a job, have friends, am a professional volleyball player... And now some cocksucker beats the **** out of me, rapes me and leaves me pregnant... Now, I am forced to go trough birth (a very ****** painfull expirience, so I was informed) to a child of a man who raped me, meanwhile I should just cancel my sports, job, college, social life while this little **** rots inside me. Think I might wanna jump a flight of stairs couple of times? Socialize with coathangers? Ask a favour from a fresh med student? Not every woman wants to give birth you know, and now I am forced to do so... **** you and your anti abortion law!

Just speaking figuratively, of course.
User avatar #305 to #304 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
The thing about rape is that there are things called rape kits and post evidence collection they treat for possible virus and give an estrogen boost to the body to prevent pregnancy. Also that was a completely EMOTIONALLY charged argument. No matter how you look at it you are destroying a human life out of spite for the innocent's father's sins.
#311 to #305 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I was just on a roll, felt like the best way to paint it.
In my humble opinion, no woman should ever be forced to go trough pregnancy.

Let us agree to disagree, I see neither of us giving in anywhere.
User avatar #312 to #311 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
k bro.
User avatar #294 to #292 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
Ah. I completely overlooked that. Not even considering something like that, thank god I'm not a world leader, eh?
I don't know, abortion just seems immoral to me, though I suppose we'd be doing the child a favor if the odds are that their life would be miserable if they were born.
The whole matter is ****** up, really. It's just a shame that we have to deal with things like rape and irresponsible sex that make this an issue in the first place, but that's the world we live in, I suppose.
To be honest, I'm not completely sure what my views on abortion are, as I think about the subject a lot and tend to change my opinions.
#297 to #294 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I have stated in my post merely that we SHOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make abortion illegal, the world is too ****** for something like that... I am in no way supporting people who want to get abortion just for the fun of it... It's a tragic event that is sometimes a convenient necessity... Never to be supported, but never to be made illegal...
User avatar #163 to #94 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Actually, since the moment when the two DNA strand (spermatozoon's and ovum's) combine, we have a new human being. not adult nor child, but human
I'm studying biology, and that's what we have at least in the other animals
User avatar #204 to #163 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
No, you have a zygote, then a fetus. A fetus can't be considered a human until it's able to live outside of the mother's womb (after two trimesters usually). You should probably study more.
User avatar #217 to #204 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Then nobody it's a human until he is 6-7 years, when he could be able to survive without the protecction of the mother.
User avatar #224 to #217 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
For a biology student you don't seem to understand biology well. A fetus only becomes a human when it can survive outside of the womb. Before that it's a fetus.

By your logic, nobody is a human since they need police forces and governments to protect them.
#240 to #224 - anonymous (01/18/2014) [-]
You could perhaps say that a fetus early on isn't alive yet, but aftter some time when the fetus is beginning to move and it has a beating heart (around 4 weeks), it is very much alive and considered a young human being in development. I personally am not sure on wether arbortion should be allowed freely or not, but I do believe we should treat lightly on how it's handled. The woman bearing the child should propably have the final word, but then again it's also the man's baby.
User avatar #242 to #240 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
No, it's not alive since it's still dependent entirely on the mother for everything, even oxygen. It's not alive nor human until it can be brought to term, after about two trimesters. You'd be very hard pressed to find a legitimate scientist that differs from this view.

I can't argue there since that's all opinion.
User avatar #236 to #224 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
By my logic we are humans since we have our own DNA, a new DNA in history, that wont be made any more.
There's no a point in those 6 months when you can tell "aaaaand now it's a human", the only possible point in my opinion is the moment when our parent's DNAs "mix in one".
User avatar #241 to #236 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
New DNA has nothing to do with whether a fetus is human or not.

Yes, there is. When a fetus can brought to term is when it is scientifically considered a human, regardless of your "opinion" on the matter.
User avatar #259 to #241 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
To determine different species, nowadays everyone sees the genetic code, so it has to do.
If someone builds an incubator that recreates the womb's conditions, then a fetus would be human before?
User avatar #262 to #259 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
This is advanced stupid, I give up. Hopefully you don't have any position of scientific clout in the future.
#164 to #163 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
Somehow I have a feeling that you had the need to say that even though I never mentioned anything about that part of the argument, but very well: Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

As far as I care, it's something that should be decided in first few weeks of pregnancy (if aware of it) or when first aware of it (Yes, I was on this site long enough to see that women who aborted a child she wasn't even aware it was in her, weird **** happens, we can't always predict everything or dare to claim we know boundaries of human stupidity).
#170 to #164 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
What I said is that even if it's a rape (what would be a tragedy), the fetus is as human as a newborn, so we could aks him when he is like 5 years if he wants to live in that situation or not, and the if he says no, whether taking him to a foster care or just kill him, but the child chooses.
All this is a biologist point of view, I don't know about rights and all that stuff
User avatar #231 to #170 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/18/2014) [-]
yea a 5 year old is going to understand that complex situation.
User avatar #239 to #231 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Then better not asking him and choose by yoursel, right?
And I said 5 years as an age not so late but not so fast, but if you want, you can ask him when he is 16.
User avatar #246 to #239 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/18/2014) [-]
Your parents make a lot of decisions for you, they have legal right to. They could pierce your ears, circumcise you, chose your name. This is just another choice that parents have.
User avatar #250 to #246 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
I think your life it's not like your name or to pierce your ears.
#206 to #170 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I am not bashing you down for voicing your opinion. You are watching it from one viewpoint and as far as I've deducted you are interested in more...

Whilst that all sounds very noble and idealistic, I doubt that raped 12yo girl looks forward to giving birth to a child just so child could vote 5 years later on it. And while you mentioned 5 years, are you truly certain that 5yo child is capable of giving such life threatening decisions? Again, your cause is noble, but allow me to hit low: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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