

Healthcare bill proposal draws bipartisan criticism

September 17, 2009 by  







Spencer Cameron

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  • hsr0601

    The State Of “Yes We Can”, Minnesota !!

    1. As regards a make-believe scheme, the source of funding coming from a middle class is utterly against the commitment of Democratic party.

    2. No cost-competitive advantage does not clear the grave concern about the unsustainable cost of overall health care program in the long run.

    3. Even with some benefit for primary practitioners, the baseless scheme does not come with fundamental payment reform, or a pay for value reimbursement formula. It means that the insurer-friendly scheme is not cleaning up the concerns over a quality issue and $9trillion of deficit over the next decade.


    4. For Medicare & Medicaid system to survive from the most wasteful structure on earth, enough savings by ways of fundamental changes need to be secured, in return, the savings thereof suffice to meet the goal of well-planned public option.

    ((Even with far less visits to docs, which average a half or a third of them in any other free states, Americans pay roughly twice as much per person right now)).

    5. For the record, prior to nation-wide deployment of reform, The State Of “Yes We Can”, Minnesota influenced by Mayo clinic spends “20 percent” less per patient than the national average and 31 percent less than in the highest cost state. It highlights that no substantial tax raise is needed at least for sure.

    ((The $583 billion of revenue package, and the astronomical savings of public option aside, “20%” of $923.5bn (the combined Medicare and Medicaid cost per year, as of July) is around $184.7bn per year and 1.847trillion over the next decade, and this patient-centered value alone could be sufficient to meet the goal of public option)).

    6. In brief, the long-awaited and most hopeful health care plan is to meet these criterias : Affordability, Quality, and A Check function against runaway premiums thereof.

    Clearly enough, due largely to its lower overhead cost, purchasing power and fundamental payment reform, the well-planned public option would be an even better candidate than the fabricated scheme by THE INDUSTRY in these aforementioned regards.

  • DaveH

    There is only one tried and true method for lowering the costs of any goods – the free market. It is what made this country great in the past, and the current lack of it is ruining this country.

    • eyeswideopen

      yes, Dave the free market got us insurance premiums that rose by 131% in ten years, and our salaries only rose by 38%. I love what the free market has done for the average American, at this rate, none of us will be able to afford insurance in just a couple of years.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        At least under Bush my salary rose 38 percent and higher. Under Obama, its been cut 10 percent. Thanks democrats.

    • s c

      DaveH, anti-free market geekoids who send in predictable feedback on “free market capitalism” never took the time to de-program themselves. They spout Marxian crap they’ve been told to repeat by their ‘leaders.’ They actually believe a free market is bad, and that any other approach must be an improvement.
      We have NOT had the luxury of a free market economy for generations. What we have is a charade put forth by those who hate free markets. Free markets work – IF ‘leaders’ leave them alone. Congress is an economic ghoul that rips apart America’s economy, and then demands to be seen as the sole protector of that which it’s trying to destroy. Add the anti-free market Fed to the mixture, and we have the economic equivalent of Nazis who tend gas chambers at a concentration camp.
      Contrary to what incompetent economists and their uninformed parrots believe, a free market economy is the best economic system ever invented. It’s the fifth columnist, John Maynard Keynes worshiping dolts who wreak havoc with free markets. Until they do 10 minutes of honest, oblective research, they’ll never get close to the truth (assuming they have enough integrity to want to know the truth – no matter how much it hurts).

    • JeffH

      Free market competition is just what it says, but only exists in small business. Unfortunatly what often happens, as with Big Oil, Power, Sports, Insurance, etc. is that simple coercion takes over, and the BOD, CEO’s all have something in common. Why should they compete on a level field when they all agree that huge profits are to be made. There aren’t many non-profit insurance companies.
      Big government is a major player and supports that mindset.
      You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours!

    • eyeswideopen

      Dave, I do have a question for you… us Repubs, now want tort reform, isn’t that against the free market theory? How can we want to control and limit the payouts to someone who has had criminal and physical damage done? Are you for tort reform???

      • American Citizen

        Since when is the justice system a free market system? Only for the lawyers, I guess.

  • DaveH

    It amazes me that the government will cite a crisis as an excuse for government intervention. Then after the regulations result in more problems, the government will propose still more regulations as the remedy. And the masses just line up for more elixir.

    • David

      Amen Dave. Everything that mass of lawyers touches turns to crap so why is it so hard for everyone to understand why we do not want the gov to take over? Health care and cap & tax is a 1-2 punch to our economy. Sure us 40 somethings want SS, health care, etc reformed…so that we may actually get to use it someday…but the excuse that we need to rush is for one reason. Nov. 2010

      • eyeswideopen

        David, have you read the Medicare Advantage Bill passed in 2003? Try reading it, and you will see why reform needs to start today, before that bill bankrupts, us.

    • JeffH

      It is time to regulate the regulators! The Medicare Advantage plan isn’t the major culprit here. It is the hands and minds of a government that can screw it up, but can’t fix it! Republicans and Democrats together in unison are our greatest problem creators, but not the greatest problem solvers. And FYI, all the Bush and Obama haters must have real short memories.
      How to fix it, I don’t know? Legislation for the sake of legislation isn’t the answer. There has to be an independent panel or group created with some of the most, intelligent, respected economic minds dedicated to solving the government’s wasteful spending, and a government dedicated to listening to reason and enactment of a sound economic plan for recovery. Tighten your belts.

      • Smilee

        Medicare Advantage is a big part of the problem in Medicare and these same type plans for the under 65 crowd are not good either, they are expensive, limit your choices in care, doctors and hospitals. Medicare Advantage drove the cost of care for those on it up 14% (government share), do you still think that was a smart move when they should have been looking at ways of lowering cost, you see conservative will so anything they can to create the excuse to get rid of medicare, SS etc. That why these government plans have financial problem by driving the costs up and bankrupting. If you can’t vote them out then do all you can bankrupt them and that is what is going on here and by many in congress. The idea is to kill reform and to them its OK to tell and lie and act mad as hell.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          But you cant just throw all the blame on conservatives. Both sides have their ideas on what they want to do, neither will get together and do what is good for the American general public, and the liberal side wants to have us all pay higher and higher taxes to fund more and more social programs, where I dont myself believe the solution is for me to pay more so someone else can get something free, the solution is to make it affordable for us that do pay. For those that want and live on these free government hand outs, thats another problem that needs dealt with, without upping my taxes to pay for them. As a result of this, I pay more for everything, and it shouldnt be that way.

          • eyeswideopen

            BeBeroni, I agree, however with no reform, you will still be paying more and the amount of people you will be covering will grow, as unemployment (people with Cobra) will add to it, in a couple of months. If this reform fails, the Insurance companies will be embolden knowing that we can’t and won’t stop them from doing business unfairly and our premiums will rise at an even faster pace than the previous ten years when they increased 131% to the salary increase of only 38%. Republicans are supposed to believe in capitalism, well right now the insurance companies are a monopoly and fair competition is not present. We have private universities and government (state) run universities which shows we can have private industry compete with government on a fair basis. This is kinda like when the government had to step in and break up the Bell phone companies as they weren’t allowing fair competition.

          • JeffH

            I will come out and make a bold statement.
            Until there is government reform, anything and everything that they do or propose should be met with strong resistance by the taxpayers and citizens. It is governments willingness to spend taxpayer dollars without ever balancing the numbers that has created the financial/fiscal spiral we are in today.
            No new spending for government!

          • Smilee

            My post only addressed the Medicare Advantage and had nothing to do with a lot of your response.

          • Smilee

            The 2003 Medicare Bill was a totally republican bill, majorities in the house, senate and republican president so they own it and need to be responsible for it , changes to parts C & D were a disaster from the Medicare recipient but great for big medical usiness

        • JeffH

          BUT…Medicare Advantage is just what the name implies, a coverage advantage over standard Medicare.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, hon, the only “advantage” is Big Phrma, who is making 200 billion each year from this program. We need to stop the bankruptcy issues tied to healthcare. Americans desperately need care and lower premiums before all of us who are not on Medicare are in the bankruptcy lines.

          • Smilee

            Medical advantage plans should have been called disadvantage plans and they are no where near as good as the original Medicare with a Medigap plan, They have less legal protections, cost more, limit your choice of doctors and hospitals, added copays and in some cases deductibles, this was a disaster and drove up the cost for the government. It’s clear you do not understand the Medicare System and Plans.

        • American Citizen

          Congress should have put SS and Medicare in their own “lockboxes” instead of the General Fund. They wouldn’t be in trouble if they had done that.

          • Smilee

            Hey AC we agree something today, this was Al Gore’s big thing in the 2000 elections, of course he never became president and Bush did not believe in it, Defined benefit pensions in the private sector by law have to be held in trust and administered by the trustee. The employer once he deposits the money for your pension can no longer access it and if we had done this for SS and Medicare they would not have been in the financial straights that they now are, but then what republicans wanted was to do anything to bankrupt it so they can get rid of it. Republicans care only about those in society who are rich and the other 95% can go to hell.

  • Average Joe

    I replied to a post you made the other day concerning dirt floors and and no electricity. You may not have read it, so I am going to repeat it.
    It is about the principles upon which this nation was founded, ideals concerning being free as human beings to live our lives without having others enforcing their personal morals and veiws. Each and every person has the basic right to have their own beleifs and no one has the right to force their personal veiws on another. If you want free healthcare, socialism, etc; that is fine and dandy, however, you have no right to force it on anyone else…period. This nation was founded as a Constitutional REPUBLIC, not a Democracy (the only thing that was democratic was the proccess of electing officials). The Governments sole responsibilty to the nation is to enforce the people’s basic RIGHT’s as spelled out in the Constitution and Bill of Right’s. There are 17 enumerated powers given to the national government in the constitution and no others.
    We as people should be looking at smaller federal government.More should be done on the state and local government levels.
    We want to help others, we want affordable healthcare etc. (I get that, and am all for it)but we should be try to do things more locally and get the federal/national government out of our personal lives,since they have no business in it to begin with.
    Want better health coverage? How about going to your county commission meeting and rally them to set up a co-op through the insurance co. to insure the entire county, city, or any other way you wish to set it up.Pay the tax to the county instead of the state or feds (that way you still keep the money local). Fix things in this nation….one city at a time, one person at a time.
    Elect people in your city that want to obey the Constitution and the rule of law. Stop convicting people for victimless crimes (most of those crimes are about taking cash from the average citizen, because we have the moral police and moral laws) Who’s morals are they? Do we not each have our own set of morals? So long as we as people do not infringe upon anyone else’s constitutional rights, we have committed no crime.
    Get the fed out of business completely, federal regulation is is actually hurting capitalism (what we have now is not a truly fee market since everyone is tied to “federal ruglation”. How can you compete in business if everyone is stuck to the same guidelines? By going local on regulations, it would stimulate competion and innovation from neighboring cities, insurance, sevice’s etc.
    This in turn stimulates price drops (supply and demand ie. if I have a product and you have they same product and I can sell mine for 20% less than you…guess who is gonna sell more product?). This is just basic economics. The key is you must stimulate competition and innovation, in order to do that we need the feds out of picture.
    The same with education…feds out…locals in. Do you not think that you would have more say on your childs education if it was handled locally rather than with the feds involved?
    Would you rather see the city, local church and community pitching in to help Mrs. Smith down the block, who’s husband recently passed away in a car accident and left her with 2 kids and a ton of bills or the feds handing out money to the banks that screwed up,”gambled” our money away because they a greedy (yes our money, they gambled with our money…not theirs), paid themself exuberant sums of money and then have the audacity to ask us to bail them out?
    I guess what I am trying to say is that we can do things much better and much more efficiently locally than we can ever hope to do it on a national level. Please take some time and think about it, I believe it is the only way will ever fix this nation.
    Thanks for listening and I hope it makes a difference to someone out there.

    • eyeswideopen

      Average, We are a Constitutional Rebublic, who functions as a liberal democracy. We are set up diffently than other democracy which was conceived. I like all you ideas, However, we in this Republican run county I live in tried to get an Insurance Co-op 3 yrs ago, and were told by our officials that we would just have to purchase our own policies, as the county has a deal the the company they are with now and can’t worry about those that don’t have coverage. Libertarian policies sound great, except we are too big and too corrupt to be able to have that type of government. The people who are receiving the government assistance will never allow this country to become as you describe. If they won’t reform a plan that ignorant. you think all those people on SS and Medicare will let you take that from them? Not going to happen….Yes personally, I would love to live in that type of country you describe. however I am a realist and know that the Christian rt, will never allow gays to be equal, and for abortion to be a choice. In addition they are now going to have a new group to hate, the Hispanics. Your utopia is a great dream, but if people thought it could work, the Libertarian party would have grown much larger since its inception in the 70′s.

      • Average Joe

        How about canvassing your neighborhood? Family members? A co-op can be set up anyway you wish to set it up. You don’t have to have local government involved…How about your church congregation? How many members in it…all it takes to get lower rates is more people in the plan that you decide on. There are so many ways to accomplish your goals. But remember, the key is to start locally. One community at a time, one city, county, state. Freedom and liberty always must start with a small spark and gradually build to a full fledged fire.
        Everyone keeps saying “It can’t be done”, how do we know if we don’t at least try? I supported Ron Paul for president, everyone I talked to agreed with what he said and his policies, But they all said the same thing “he doesn’t have a chance though”…I guess nothing has a chance if we don’t get off of our duffs and at least try. As far as straightening out our “representatives?”in government, I still say the most effecient way to wake them up is to cut off their funding…stop paying the blood money (taxes)to them! They cannot operate without our financial support and that is a fact. Don’t say that we can’t get out of taxes, as I personally know better, look up Tom Cryer sometime. besides…if everyone would just unite for one cause(this one)…..tell me how in the world they are gonna lock up 307 million people?…they can’t.
        As long as we as a nation, continue to have this defeatist attitude ( we can’t do it, He can’t win etc.), we will never accomplish anything and they have won….when eveyone else has given up, I will still continue to have hope that the people of the nation will someday wake up and take back their Creator given Right’s…Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness…without government interference. Any right that you must have permission to do…is not a right at all, but rather a priveledge and priveleges can be denied….Right’s cannot.
        I will continue to protect and defend my constitution until I take my last breath, I am willing to die for the defense of that document, now you must ask yourselves, Are you willing to die for your convictions? If you are not, then you really have no convictions.
        Start a small spark of liberty in your neighborhood and watch it grow to a bonfire.We must actually start the spark though, it cannot burn if there is no spark.

        • eyeswideopen

          Average Joe, we tried to do that, however Florida only allows certain companies to sell here and they all had the same rates. It is a monopoly and needs to be broken up to allow fair competition. I was working with 150 families who were anywhere between 110.00 to 200.00 above the poverty level, so there was no federal or state assistance. I watched as over 35 families went to emergency rooms and walked away from the bills. These were hard working uneducated men and women who just don’t make that much money. I had volunteers look at their budgets and they really weren’t spending in a wasteful way. They are just the working poor. The local churches were able to donate 125,000 towards one family who had two children who played sports and came down with Mersa. Both were in the hospital for 7 days, one lost his arm. Needless to say the 125K didn’t even come close to paying for it. You know that those kind of costs are passed on to us consumers in our premiums. We need reform, not free insurance, but affordable insurance.

  • Average Joe

    The reality is that our citizen’s have become dependent on “services” from our cities. Our cities have become dependent on the county to “give” them extra funds to work with. The county has in turn become dependent on the state to “give” them extra funds. The states have in turn become dependent on the national government to supply the extra “funds”. The national in turn , return to the people and collects all of those “funds”(in the form of taxes)from the citizens. Keeps a portion for themselves as a “handling fee” and then sends a portion back to the states to “trickle down” with each middleman in the chain gets their cut of the “windfall”.
    If the American people would ever wake up and stop paying the national government their blood money(taxes), all of the government’s self serving legislation would come to a screaching halt. While I said before that through collective thinking, we have become dependent on them. This is actually not true, they depend on our taxes, our money(taken through the court sytem), our livelyhood in order to even exist! In short, if we stop paying…either they start listening or they cease to exist. They have bills to pay…as a matter of fact, they are the only ones that made those bills, you and I did not contract for those bills, they did. As far as I am concerned if their debtors decide to forclose because they can’t pay…so be it. They can have the District of Columbia and all of it’s territories (Guam, Puerto Rico, Guantanamo Bay etc). However, since we the people did not contract with anyone, the states would still belong to us.We as a nation Can always build a new Capitol and re-establish a constitutional government…and ….it would be foreign debt free (and for the first time in many years…idiot free).
    Withholding monetary support for them is the only non-violent way to bring them back under the rule of law and the constitution.

    This was written sometime in the 80′s as shown by the population totals (we are at about 307 million now),Lebanon, Tip O’niel etc; but everything in it still applies.

    THE 545 PEOPLE






















    This article was taken from the Orlando Sentinel Star newspaper

  • John J.

    The answer to health care costs, and effectiveness; NATURAL MEDICINE!

    The answer to better Government, make it smaller; FEDERALISM

    The answer to the energy crisis, DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW

    The answer to the banking problem, CREDIT UNIONS

    The answer to economic recovery, LEGISLATION TO HELP SMALL BUSINESS

  • fanofthegreatone

    “I am not the first president to take up this cause…” said BHO in his healthcare speech “…but I am determined to be the last.” As for the latter, let’s hope so!! By that I mean, it would be great if BHO were the last candidate of his kind to be elected president. In all future elections: WISE UP VOTERS!! DON’T BE DUPED by the liberal media or leftwing candidates who pretend to be moderate to conservative. The GOP has its faults, and some RINOs. But be really wary of the Democratic Party, which has been hijacked by ultra-liberal statists and socialists over the past 4 decades. In 1993, Rush Limbaugh thought Bill Clinton’s presidency would be the final nail in the coffin of liberalism. Sadly, he miscalculated. But it’s now obvious that BHO has proven to be far more leftwing and radical in 8 months than Clinton was in 8 years. If Obama doesn’t wake up the voters, who will?? God help us if the voters ever elect another president like BHO, or worse!!

    • s c

      Fan, it’s very hard to be an optimist, especially when we have allowed generations of vermin to infest government. To me, FDR was bad for the country and the world. Only his zombie backers and the prostitute media can try to put a shine on FDR’s freedom-destroying behavior (did you know many FDR papers from WWII are still secret, and are not for the eyes of American mortals?). Now, we have an FDR II in the White House. I am not ruling out the possibility that America will someday get stuck with an FDR III.
      This guy had the brass to promise transparency, and he is saying that ACORN is no big deal. He wants us embroiled in a war that he always opposed. CBSNEWS.com says there are 5 health care promises he won’t keep. What planet is he from, and when will he go back home?

  • sonny

    Obama wants health care no matter what the people want. Obama wants amnesty for 12 to 20 million illegal aliens no matter what the people want. Illegal aliens cost billions of dollars every year of taxpayers dollars. Healthcare, education, free school lunches, incarceration, time in local jails, trail cost, documents printed in english and spanish, wic and other entitlements. Healtcare fraud cost $11 billion dollars per year. Why isn’t Congress working on these things to save money instead of programs the American people don’t want? Obama, Pelosi, Reid and others are socialist, they want to change the American way of life but not for the better. I say who ever supports all the things the people don’t want, let them know it in 2010, vote them out of office.

    • http://yahoo sheila

      I agree that Obama, Reid, Pelosi and other members of the democrat party are socialist and want to take over our country where we will have no rights. They want to take money from medicare to pay for this Obama care bill and ration health care to the elderly and disabled. Most people don’t get medicare for free, you pay 96.40 a month for medicare right off the top of your social security check. Our country is in more trouble than ever before and never have I been so worried about our freedoms. When a President is pressing so hard to get the people to take a government healthcare plan even though the people do not want it, something is very fishy. Look out America

  • jeerry silovich

    my idea of healthcare bill would get rid of fraud and abuse of medicare and mediciad. if must have tort reform in it. no money going to ACORN or Americorp.org!
    FDR had a depressioon with pres Obama and his raw deal we are going to have a long resession. pres Obama should be focus on the economy stupid. Obama stimulus bill or plan is the resason why wqe going to be in a lopng ression! we have 16% unployment and we dont need almoast 2 million more coming to the USA under H1_B or H1-A visa’s.
    lets get amerrican citizeens wworking first!
    we dont need universal,national or Obamacre either. All those healthcare plans are to costly.i like my medicaal healthcare plan .i sure dont like or want socialize medicine!

  • American Citizen

    Amen to all the above. If the Congress and President stuck to their Constitutional duties only, they need only be in Washington a few months a year. Think of the money we’d save. Salaries would to down as well as all the perks. We are slowly and not so slowly losing our Constitution and far too many Americans either are blind to that or just plain don’t care. But they’d care if it ever happens. I don’t think anyone want to be a slave to the Federal Government.

    • American Citizen

      Sorry about the typos, my eyes are beginning to go. I am currently seeing an eye specialist as well as my regular eye doctor. I hope none of you ever has a vision problem. It is a bugger.

  • Mike D

    I know this is not an easy nut to crack and all the bells and whistles in this plan may sound like a good thing, but isn’t INSURANCE really just a gambling on health itself? How can you expect to cover an existing problem or not deny someone because of, when the object is your betting on not getting ill in the first place? What will the premiums look like?

    It is horrible to think that folks who need medical treatment do not have insurance to cover it. So how can this plan do all of that and still be inexpensive? It can’t

    What we need is a multi layer insurance plan that meets the needs of the individual, not a cloud that engulfs the whole population. Everyone should have coverage but not the way these buffoons are proposing. Private industry is the best means for this and with bit of work it can be done!

    Fact is our politicians are too lazy to make the honest effort that is needed to solve this problem. They just bicker back and forth, hoping to gain a vote here or there with no real progress being made. What a shame!

  • wilmacook

    i think the gov to give free ins .hosptial free to every one inthe hold usa .

    • American Citizen

      Someone has to pay for it. The government has no money of its own. It only has what it takes from the citizens who pay taxes.

  • wilmacook

    i have asick husband and no want to help because every is haveing it hard,my husband have a5 by pass heard attack.bad diabetes3 shots he 3 time a day .he haveparkinsondisease he just got opeation neckshard ofarterys 100%block.we need help with donation .we doing bad all bills is up to 400.00dollars.because he stayin the hosptial for the year 2008in icu and park of to2009in icu baptist.we have no ins at that time becauseno one want to give us ins becausemy husband have allthing wrong with him .my is a veteran .every thing every body would like to donation .we thanku for it we need money bad we arelosting a lot .every peoples taht care and would like to helpour family in our hard ship send it to wilma cook @ 319 wmain st rockwell nc 28138. i no god will bless u for everything that u help .he was on the radio wsoc 103.7toask for peoples to help our family .god bless wilma cook

    • American Citizen

      Have you applied for Medicaid? Is he old enough for Medicare? Call someone in your local government. Their numbers are probably in the front of the phone book. They can direct you to the proper agency who should be able to help you.

      • eyeswideopen

        American, it is funny you are so against the government, but right away you are sending them to a government run health program. Don’t you see anything ironic about that?

        • American Citizen

          Since there are ways to help them, why not direct them to them? You are the one trying to have it both ways. “As good Christians, we should take care of the poor”. We do what we can, but there has been help out there for the real poor for quite a while. Some people don’t know how to get the help they need. I wish you’d make up your mind what you believe. This health care program Congress is working on is not about helping or lowering costs. It’s an attempt to take over control. There are things that need fixing, but when those areas are brought up, the Democrats vote no. They just did that today. Watch C-Span and see what they are all doing.

  • MikeD

    This is an unfortunate fact in todays world and you can’t expect an insurer to foot the bill for this circumstance, however there is a way to cover such a situation and still provide care to everyone. Preexisting conditions can be handled in a different manner as opposed to a healthy person but covered just the same. This has to be done with a diverse option plan that uses a portfolio of payments, options and insurers and not just one premium by one insurer. Privet medicinal savings plans that are tax deductible are also included as part of this plan. Just as an IRA acc. uses diversity to gain wealth, so must a medical plan do the same. It will work and can be constructed as to meet the needs of EVERY AMERICAN regardless of health or preconditions.

  • Barry

    We are idiots and letting the country be run by morons. A lose, lose situation.

  • Average Joe

    I want to see how well we know our nation’s history. I have one simple question to ask. Everyone is allowed to use whatever resources they wish to use for the answer. I will wait for responses before I devulge the answer, Good Luck!

    How many people signed the Declaration of independence?
    For extra credit,name 3 people that singed it.
    seems simple enough doesn’t it? If anyone gets the correct answer(s), then you can consider yourselves above average.(99% don’t get it right)
    Again, Good Luck

    • eyeswideopen

      total of 56 signed it. William Floyd, Francis Lewis, William Whipple are three that signed. The first one printed did not have John Hancock’s signature, his name had been typed on it.

      • Average Joe

        Like you , I live on Florida, so can understand your frustration. However, we still need to try to work around our govmnt.
        Civil diobediance is still a viable alternative ( I practice it daily, and so do most of my friends) No violence…just stop the flow of money to these idiots.Anything that they force upon us that involves money flow..STOP PAYING them. If we continue paying them, we are only incouraging them to continue.Stop (if you can), using the big box stores (they use their cash to influence just like any other special interest group) Use only your local family owned businesses, buy your produce, meat,fish and poultry from local farmers (most don’t charge you a sales tax). When you personally know where these things are grown, you know what is in them (unlike the things being shipped to you from around the world). I cannot stress enough…Local,Local, Local.
        OK, as for the question, thank you for doing the research and you are correct. Seems that it actually was a simple thing to find out and answer. I did this not because it was a tough question, but to see how many people here were willing to actually do the research and come up with the answers.Seems as though 99% of the people can’t be bothered with their history or their future.By studying our history, we may avoid repeating mistakes that we have made along the way, and change things for our future. Thank you for playing along and actually being active in your pursuit of Life,Libery and Happiness. kudos!

        this is a video that eveyone should see if they truly want “Change”.

        • eyeswideopen

          Average, what do you think of ES&S(Election Systems& Software) becoming the only company who has voting machines in 65 or the 67 counties in Fl? They just bought ourt Diebold. You do realize that they are owned by very influetial Republicans don’t you? http://dissidentvoice.org/articles8/landes_vote.htm
          It now has a monopoly in Florida, which means too much market power is in the hands of too few. In Dec. of 2005, a hacker called Hursti Hack was able to electronically stuff the ballot box and manipulate election results without leaving a trace in Leon County using the Diebold machines, after some antitrust threats, they gave leon county more software to make it more hacker proof. When powerful companies reach the monopoly status and it involves our election process, this is when our freedoms are impaired.

          I am afraid for Florida, we are being railroaded again, by our leaders. Did you see the monies being given to the legislators, from US Chamber of Commerce 225,000, Blue Cross/Blue Shield 100,000, Petway Insurance 100,000? Senator Mike Haridopolos has a special committee which is exempt from the 500.00 max limit. He plans to raise 12 million to keep only the Repubs in power.The ever growing size of individual donations troubles some long-time observers of the legislature who say the trend results in only the wealthest interests being heard.Nancy Argenziano PSC commissioner, stated that the potentially corrosvie influence of money in Florida politics. She was a former Republican state senator from Dunnellon. She singled out the lawmaker-controlled committees as a particular problem. “I have seen what influence those large contributions have”.

  • sean patdrick murrey

    i dont like te idea of taking 500 billion dollars out of my medicare for this crap obummer is trying to have us pay for this flawed plan.Hands off my medicare Obummer.

    • American Citizen

      Got an e-mail today from a retired constitutional lawyer who says there are so many parts of this bill that are unconstitutional. He said there is nothing in the Constitution that gives Congress the power to even do this.

    • eyeswideopen

      Sean, they will be cutting approx 167 billion, That is the amount left to pay Big Phrma. No cuts to the regular medicare program only cuts for the prescription drugs, which didn’t allow the government to negotiate with the drug companies. It also includes subsidies to companies like IBM which we are paying 400 million for 6 years, to pay for their retired employees meds. The cuts will stop all the subsidies. Big Phrma is presently making profits since the bill passed in the amounts of 200 Billion each year.

    • Smilee

      Sean, the Bush people put that much waste in that plan in 2003, all Obama just want to cut that waste out, you do not believe in efficient government do you, these cuts will not effect Medicare coverages and may even make them better, I guess you are not knowledgeable about how Medicare works.

  • Average Joe



    This article was taken from the Orlando Sentinel Star newspaper

  • Average Joe

    oops…wrong blog….4 going at the same time…disregard last post

    • eyeswideopen

      Hey Average, did you hear of the plan where everyone pays a flat rate of 125.00 each for healthcare per month? It would mean that a family of four would only pay 500.00 per month. Hell that’s cheaper than what I pay just for me. My friend in Europe heard that someone in the states proposed that, she can’t remember who ,and that the people who don’t make claims would off set the ones that did. I have her hunting for info. Have you ever heard of that? I’ll let you know any additional info I get.

  • American Citizen

    John Hancock was the last one to sign, I believe. I know most of them lost everything they had after they signed it. They all put their lives in jeopardy. I wonder how many today would be willing to do what they did. I can honestly say this is the first time I have been afraid of our government in all my years. I’ve never seen such an abuse of power or the hankering after power.

    • eyeswideopen

      American, they you don’t remember Pres. Bush.

      • John C. Davidson

        We remember all of them and that is the problem, transparency remains non-existent, although touted once again.

      • American Citizen

        Honestly, I didn’t feel threatened under the Bush Administration. I wasn’t afraid of the Patriot Act as I didn’t plan to communicate with terrorists. 9/11 changed this country and it seems Obama is trying to go back to before that time. Just look at the terrorists they’ve found here in the last couple of days. I hope they put them in Gitmo. It’s still needed.

  • http://charter howe

    Tort reform means putting a cap on these monsterous awards given to plaintiffs in these lawsuits to allow doctors to have affordable insurance and to reduce the number of cover your back test to avoid these lawsuits. No one is taking away the right of the patient to sue for damages, but Texas is one of the few states that has a cap and other states should have it also. Who do you think pays for the humongously unreasonable awards; the consumers who buy insurance coverage and the government and the lawyers get their 80% and the patient gets his paltry sum and thats not right. The reason that TORT reform isn’t discussed by the Democrats is because the lawyers associaation donates huge sums of money to the democrats to take care of their trial lawyer agenda. This one issue could save many billions of taxpayer money per year if it were enacted on a simple one on one simple and separate piece of legislation.


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