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Deputy PM Says Tax Limits of Greek Society Exhausted

Tyler Durden's picture


As G-Pap goes from meeting to meeting with his hand held out making promises to asset strip and tax his country into oblivion, AP is reporting that Deputy PM Theodore Pangalos that the country's tax-ability is exhausted (and has exhausted for some time). It is truly astounding that this farce has gone on for so long even as it appears (from the riots/strikes/press) that everyone (serfs and lords alike now) sees through the plans.

Via The Associated Press: Greek Official: Ability to pay new taxes exhausted



Greece has "exhausted" its ability to pay more taxes to cover budget gaps, the deputy prime minister declared Wednesday, saying he himself can't pay a new emergency tax without selling property.


Theodoros Pangalos spoke as the debt-shackled nation faced fresh strikes and braced for another inspection by international creditors, starting Thursday, to decide whether to continue the vital bailout loan payouts.


Parliament approved a new emergency property tax Tuesday to be added to electricity bills later this year, as Greece remains under strong international pressure to abide by its painful deficit-cutting targets. Greece will go bankrupt by mid-October if it does not get an expected euro8 billion ($11 billion) loan.


"I believe that the tax limits of Greek society have been exhausted. I would say they have been exhausted for some time," Pangalos told private Mega television.


Pangalos, a 73-year-old Sorbonne-trained economist, is listed as owner or part-owner of eight properties and farmland in greater Athens and several other parts of Greece.


"The property I own was purely obtained through inheritance. Personally, I have never bought anything ... I will be obliged to sell some of these properties. There is nothing else I can do," Pangalos said.


Greeks have been outraged by the announcement of new austerity measures, including pension cuts and the new property tax, coming after more than a year of spending cuts and tax hikes.


In Athens, another 24-hour public transport strike Wednesday left commuters struggling to reach work, as unions lashed out against the austerity measures that the Socialist government hopes will get it access to crucial loans.


The strike left Athens without buses, subway services, taxis and trams. Customs and tax office workers were also on strike, while about 350 retirees demonstrated outside the Finance Ministry against the latest pension cuts and tax increases.


The heads of Greece's international debt inspectors are due back in Athens on Thursday to complete a review of the government's cost-cutting program.


International creditors have urged Greece's Socialist government to make deeper cuts in public payroll costs instead of repeatedly raising taxes.


Late Wednesday, more than 1,000 protesters from a Communist-backed labor union demonstrated outside the Finance Ministry, urging Greeks not to pay emergency property tax bills being sent to households this fall. Protesters burned copies of the tax notices during the peaceful rally.


"We're against workers paying even one euro for this situation," Iota Tavoulari from the union of pharmaceutical workers told The Associated Press.


"We know very well that none of the money from all the (loan) installments, received after really slaughtering the rights of workers, is going to support the workers. Not one euro to salaries, not one euro to pensions, and not one euro to social welfare," she said. "It is being paid to those who caused this crisis."




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Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:47 | 1720252 Ahmeexnal
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Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:05 | 1720308 johnQpublic
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 Tax Limits of Greek Society Exhausted




same here in the US

taxed to death....a thousand cuts....every way you turn there is another tax

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:08 | 1720317 WestVillageIdiot
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The only difference is that here in the U.S. we actually pay those taxes.  Just ask a house owner in New Jersey. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:16 | 1720352 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

i feel your pain, having lived in new york

now in DE where at least there is no sales tax and lower property tax

small victories

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:32 | 1720390 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Ask people in (or have ran away from) Detroit if they are still paying property taxes on property they have abandoned because of those taxes.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:32 | 1720543 NumNutt
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When I watch and read the news concerning the Greek/Euro financial meltdown, it feels like I am looking at a crystal ball and I am watching the future of California/USA financial meltdown. I don't think we have long to wait before we have our own shit sandwich, and everyone will have to take a bite to make it go away...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:07 | 1720587 Bicycle Repairman
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Well that was fast, wasn't it?  BTW the taxes raised so far?  The Greeks aren't paying them either.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 01:43 | 1720957 Michael
Michael's picture

Ben Bernanke better get that fucking QE3 going soon.

I need to see the destruction of the world economy maximized for my amusement.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 02:55 | 1721013 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Did you want that in 2D, 3D or IMax?

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 03:08 | 1721017 toto
toto's picture

For the first time ever it is going to be in 4D.

Better than expected...........

............or worse?

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 03:28 | 1721031 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Gimme a hint.

Is the 4th D a time thingy or a space thingy?

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 06:53 | 1721262 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

in this case, the fourth "D" is for distraction(like europe while we self destruct)

there will be another movie playing in the theater at the same time

cell phones are allowed, and there will be folks discussing the other movie sitting next to you

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:30 | 1722574 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I bet that other movie is "Gone With The Wind."

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:47 | 1720566 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Amen! The local governments won't stop till we are all taxed out onto the streets. Then who will pay their bloody property taxes? A family can only earn so much money working for wages, yet they tax anyone who even trys to keep a decent home as if they were friggen rich.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:53 | 1720575 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Nothing but the best for city and town government.. and their employees (who used to be civil servants but are now the priviliged government class).

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:31 | 1720625 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

Government workers are the Ruling Class.  It is our duty, the peasants, to insure their high salaries, their short careers, and their lengthy pensions.  Now go back to work, a clerk at the DMV needs a raise.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:03 | 1720821 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Hey, a bus driver in NYC deserves $140k/year with premium benefits you scab lovin' capitalist bourgois non working class pig!

If you piss off that DMV worker you won't get your tags. No tags, no driving. No driving no work. Cops spot you and jail! All for pissing off a DMV worker. Yup. We should have more government national healthcare! Piss them off and you won't get a doc appointment or admitted to the hospital. Instead of checking your insurance they will check your tax records for the last five years before admitting.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:08 | 1720828 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Yes, they are going into past years looking for money, too. I've just gotten a small bill for a 2007 error and a big IRS nastygram for 2009. I don't have the money and they've taken a shitload of money from me the last three years as I lost my job twice and had to cash out 401k's and got a severance.

They will never stop until government changes. Fighting them is futile. It's like punching the fog.


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:09 | 1720319 Cheesy Bastard
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If the tax limits of Greek society are really exhausted, then they should be given shorter days and more vacation time.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:05 | 1720521 Gene Parmesan
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This would seem to be the official announcement from the Greek government. Should be interesting to see how it's received by the rest of the world.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:57 | 1720455 piceridu
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Signor Fibonacci, 

Il suo gusto per armi da fuoco è impareggiabile. 


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:05 | 1720488 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Mrs.Carberry: Fecking Greeks!
Colm: It isn't the Greeks, it's the Chinese he's after.
Father Ted: I'm not after the Chinese!
Mrs.Carberry:I don't care who he gets as long as I can have a go at the Greeks. They invented gayness!

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 07:50 | 1721372 covert
covert's picture

down with the nhilism of greece


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:48 | 1720254 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

We are all slaves of the New World Order.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:51 | 1720260 nah
nah's picture

i know rite arent we supposed to get numbers and barcodes so they can shut off the polution at the level of individual citizen

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:12 | 1720333 AbelCatalyst
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My guess is Greece gets the $$ THEN gives up. Think about it - if you knew you were done financially wouldn't you try to find $ before declaring, knowing you'll have nothing left.... It's fraud, but isn't that what Greecs has been doing all along? They know they're done. They know they're going to be booted. They know they have no $ left. They know it's the end game... Why not make one last money grab?!

Equities shoot to the moon on initial announcement, then the final nail - a perfect final chapter... Just sayin - it could happen....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:28 | 1720377 CPL
CPL's picture

Would you loan a friend money if his checks bounced every month in the last year?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:10 | 1720499 Putty
Putty's picture

No. I would lend him your money. That's what is happening here.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:14 | 1720600 CPL
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Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:27 | 1720750 knukles
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And take my cut for arranging the transaction.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:35 | 1720770 knukles
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Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:20 | 1720610 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

the US Fed, Goldman Sachs or some other pay-day Loan Shark are selling ninja loans to fools right now.

Remember AIG ? How else would Greece have faked their way into the EU ?

Remember ENRON ? Nothing has Changed !

this whole financial system is corrupt and needs to fail!


No mention was made of the swap in sales documents for the securities in at least six of the 10 sales the bank arranged for Greece since the transaction, according to a review of the prospectuses by Bloomberg. The New York-based firm helped Greece raise $1 billion of off-balance-sheet funding in 2002 through the swap, which European Union regulators said they knew nothing about.

Goldman Sachs earned about $24 million underwriting Greek government bonds since 2002, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Goldman Sachs underwrote 10 bond sales. Prospectuses for six of them, obtained by Bloomberg, contain no mention of the swaps. The other four couldn’t be obtained.

Goldman could face legal liability “if it could be established that they were knowingly hiding risk, and therefore knew or had reason to know that the bond disclosure documents were misleading,”

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:34 | 1720876 Cosmicserpent
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GS faces legal liability?! Those motherfuckers need to be stood up against a wall and shot. After a fair trial of course. MOTHERFUCKERS!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:41 | 1720660 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

male or female.

for extra credit: "define female friend."

extra, extra credit: "define female fiend."

extra, extra, extra credit: "insert your dollar amount to your female fiend here:__________________."

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:08 | 1720495 Gully Foyle
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77n: Jill Clayburgh / Leon Redbone

Olympia Cafe

Pete Dionasopolis.....John Belushi
George.....Dan Aykroyd
Nico.....Bill Murray
Sandy.....Laraine Newman
New Waitress.....Jill Clayburgh
Male Customer.....Garrett Morris
Female Customer.....Gilda Radner
Benefit Lady.....Jane Curtin


A busy diner owned by the blustering, mustachioed Pete Dionasopolis. He rings up a sale on his cash register. Greek music plays quietly in the background throughout the sketch. The phone rings and Pete answers:]

Pete: [into phone] Hello, Olympia Cafe! ... [yells to George, the cook] Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

Pete: [into phone] No. No fries, chips. ... [yells to Nico, the counterman] Four chip!

Nico: Four chip!

Pete: [into phone] What to drink? No Coke. Pepsi. ... [yells to Nico] Four Pepsi!

Nico: Four Pepsi!

Pete: [into phone] All right.

[Sandy, the stern, dark-haired waitress is training an awkward new employee.]

Sandy: [to the new waitress] Just do what I do, huh? [demonstrates what to say to the others] Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Three chip!

New Waitress: Three chip!

Sandy: Three Pepsi!

New Waitress: Three Pepsi!

Nico: Three chip! Three Pepsi!

Male Customer: [paying his bill, to Pete at the cash register] I see that you are training another new waitress again.

Pete: [making change] Yeah. But she won't stay. They all want money! You know? Even him! [indicates Nico who stands by, grinning stupidly] I bring him over from Greece. I give him free food. A nice place to sleep in the back. But, even now, he's always asking for money! Ehh! [pushes Nico back to work] Come on, get out of here.

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Two chip!

New Waitress: Two chip!

Sandy: Two Pepsi!

New Waitress: Two Pepsi!

Nico: Two chip! Two Pepsi!

Female Customer: [sitting at counter, to Pete] Hey, uh, I'm almost done. I, uh, better order that stuff to go.

Pete: Ah! I like you. You eat fast. All right, what to go?

Female Customer: Um, I want a cheeseburger, Pepsi and a bag of chips.

Pete: [yells] Cheeseburger! Pepsi! Chip!

George: Cheeseburger!

Nico: Pepsi! Chip!

Pete: Sandy! C'mere!

Sandy: [Pete exits as Sandy stands at the cash register with the new waitress who hangs up her coat before Sandy explains the system] Okay, when Pete goes, you have to stand by the cash register but don't touch it. Pete is the only one to touch the cash register, huh?

Benefit Lady: [enters with placard, goes to counter, talks to Nico] Hi! Uh, we're having a benefit for the Tagart twins -- you know, the little boys that ate the balloon -- and I was wondering if I could put this poster in your window. [Nico doesn't understand a word she's saying but nods anyway] I can? [Nico shrugs, the benefit lady is delighted] Oh!

Nico: [to the benefit lady] Cheeseburger?

Female Customer: [to the benefit lady] Look, um, he doesn't understand English. All he knows is "Cheeseburger" ...

Nico: [to female customer] Cheeseburger?

Female Customer: [George brings her order in a bag] Oh, hi, George, look, uh, I wanna tell you this joke, okay? [indicates Nico] Oh, tell him too -- it's real funny. Um, this guy says to the owner of a restaurant ... [George translates in Greek to Nico] Uh, I got some bad news for you and some worse news ... [George translates] Uh, the bad news is ... [George translates] ... that there's a fly in my soup ... [George translates] Uh, the worse news is ... [George translates] It's the best part of the meal! ... [An amused George translates the punch-line but Nico doesn't understand so George repeats it. Nico still doesn't get it, shrugs apologetically. George gives up, gestures to the customer that Nico is not too bright, hands her her order, and heads back to the grill.] Thank you. [rises, pays at register, and exits]

Sandy: [phone rings, Sandy picks up, speaks into phone] Olympia Cafe. ... To go? Okay. ... [yells] Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Two chip! Two Pepsi!

Nico: Two chip! Two Pepsi!

Pete: [returns, shoos Sandy and the new waitress away] All right, come on, come on, come on, come on, let's go, come on, move, come on!

Benefit Lady: [to Pete] Hi! Um, we're having a benefit and I was wondering if I could put this poster in your window.

Pete: Sure. Five dollars.

Benefit Lady: No! No, no, no, you don't understand. It's a benefit.

Pete: [upset] Look, you come in here, you don't even buy something, you want me to put something in the window?!

Benefit Lady: Oh, okay, I'll buy something, I'll buy something.

Pete: Okay, what'll you have?

Benefit Lady: Uh, I'll have a club sandwich and a tea.

Pete: No club, no tea. Cheeseburger.

Benefit Lady: Okay, I'll have a cheeseburger, well done.

Pete: All right, cheeseburger. What to drink?

Benefit Lady: Ah, no tea?

Pete: No tea. Pepsi.

Benefit Lady: Ah, do you have root beer?

Pete: No. No root beer. Pepsi.

Benefit Lady: Grape. Do you have--?

Pete: Pepsi!!

Benefit Lady: I don't think I want anything to drink, thanks.

Pete: Okay, tea. [quickly pours her a tea]

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Sandy: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

Pete: [upset, to the new waitress] Hey, hey, yo! Hey, you! You don't say it right! Okay? Listen. [with Greek accent, spoken quickly and without pronouncing the "s"] Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Pete: Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger!

Pete: No, no. Cheeseburger!

George: [thinks an order is being made] Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

[Pete, George, and the new waitress all yell "Cheeseburger" back and forth, faster and faster, until the waitress explodes in fury:]

New Waitress: [throws her ticket book] I can't stand this place! [runs behind register to grab her coat] It's, like, nuts! I'm just getting out of this place! This is crazy! [grabs coat] Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

New Waitress: [keeps ranting] Pepsi! Chip!

Nico: Pepsi! Chip!

New Waitress: [putting on coat] Cheeseburger! Pepsi!

George: Cheeseburger!

Nico: Pepsi!

Benefit Lady: [trying to calm her] Hey, it's okay! It's okay! Everything's gonna be fine now. [to the employees, who watch dispassionately] Can somebody get her a glass of water?

Pete: No water. Pepsi.

Benefit Lady: All right, a Pepsi!

Pete: One Pepsi! [But Nico merely stands there, watching the distressed waitress until Pete hits him several times with a menu] Pepsi! Pepsi! Pepsi! Come on!

Nico: Pepsi!

Sandy: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

George: Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

[We end on the image of numerous burger patties sizzling on George's grill.]

[ pull back to wide shot of studio, with SUPER: "coming up next... How To Beat The Solar System" ]

[ fade ]

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:21 | 1720526 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:37 | 1720555 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Cheeseburger, chips and Pepsi, got it.

And Leon Redbone is?

Will you have one for Ireland?

...then Portugal...Spain...

Oh, perhaps even a re-write so Pete stays a few minutes longer  for his Greek role?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:14 | 1720601 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"And Leon Redbone is?"  Musical guest.  Sang "shine on harvest moon"

Speaking of getting shined on, Gully Foyle left off the punch line:

Pete: Tell ECB 'no pay'.

Sandy: No pay! No pay! No pay! No pay! No pay! No pay! 

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:43 | 1720889 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Fuck off.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 03:43 | 1721046 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Ever hear of YouTube?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:44 | 1720413 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

We? -1

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:49 | 1720257 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

O-la-la. Default inevitable - you can't milk a hairy Greek tit.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:01 | 1720287 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

can we get this over with, please...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:08 | 1720303 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

after Greece, they will have to deal with Portugal. Then Ireland. Then Spain, Then ...  It's only inning 1.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:09 | 1720322 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

And California, New Jersey, New York, the UK, the U.S., Belarus, Ukraine, old ladies in Florida, college graduates in Nebraska..........what else did I miss?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:15 | 1720343 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

WEST, your great, man, isn't this getting tiresome.. I wish it would end.. so we could start rebuilding...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:16 | 1720348 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

It is rather taxing.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:08 | 1720590 Fate
Fate's picture

O no you di'en't...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1720397 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Detroit went over the cliff years ago.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:36 | 1720552 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Asia. Japan, Russia, pretty much everyone except you know who, Sweden. There, complete.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:43 | 1720331 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

dorm, this greek story is starting to bore the shit out of me...

its been greek week here on the HEDGE...



Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:13 | 1720597 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Can't at least this inning only have 3 outs?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:07 | 1720299 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

USD carry trade unwind will destroy all markets.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:19 | 1720607 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Please don't talk about hairy Greek tit, it gets Zorba very excited.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:49 | 1720258 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Another telephone conference call perhaps?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:51 | 1720261 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Only a Pap-Merkozy porn film leak will stall the fall in the markets, if only for a second!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:26 | 1720371 youngman
youngman's picture

I´d rather have the Italian Berscoloni bunga bunga porn tape thank you

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:53 | 1720265 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

Dino: Tell me something. What's a beautiful broad like you doing with a malaka like this? Huh?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:17 | 1720353 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Gary: What can I tell ya Dino - she likes malakas.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:54 | 1720267 BetTheHouse
BetTheHouse's picture

Meanwhile, at the ECB: *** Fingers in ears ***  I'm not listening!! la-la-la! Greece will not default! Greece will not default!Greece will not ....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:13 | 1720335 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Speaking of the ECB what's point spread on the vote tomorrow where the German's are supposed to hand over their country to the ECB?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:54 | 1720268 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

But wealthy Greeks can pay for camoflage nets to hide their swimming pools from the tax man........

Too many of the southern European economies - you too Italy - seem to view taxes an an 'optional' thing.  The wealthy (and many others who are not) who can afford to pay simply don't - they think it's a game not a civic responsibiity.  They want all the benefits - and they have been many of late in these countruies (far better benefits than many of the Scandinavian nation) but nobody wants to pay for them.  Democracies all seem to implode when their population gets greedy and demands more of government than they are willing to pay for - and the politicians oblige until the whole mess becomes unaffordable.  There's a difference between a 'safety net' for society and whoilesale giveaways and in Greece the government has been giving money away with early retirements, generous public salaries - and way too many government employees.  The Germans and others ghave a right to be po'd.

On the other hand, the Greeks should also be nmad at their former poolicticians who - with the help of Goldman Sachs - lied like hell to get into the EU in the first place.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:02 | 1720284 philipat
philipat's picture


-Tytler (Probably)

 It might also be relevant that almost 50% of US citizens now pay NO Federal Income taxes. Just a thought.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:15 | 1720346 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"It might also be relevant that almost 50% of US citizens now pay NO Federal Income taxes."

Exactly...and accordingly to the North Carolina governor (Perdue) and the former federal budget director (Orzag) this thing mislabeled as a "democracy" seems to be inhibiting the grand bargains & schemes of the oligarchs...typical...

Too Much of a Good Thing

Why we need less democracy.


Another fascist prick.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:37 | 1720405 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Another Ivy League, fascist prick.


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:39 | 1720407 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I saw that.  What a fucking cunt.  As if their campaigning is what has kept them from fixing the economy.  Their campaigning time is about the only thing that has stopped them from fuckin us even worse.  I say let's have elections every 2 weeks, not 2 years.  Then these fuckers could focus less on fucking us and more on keeping their spot.  Complete gridlock is the only thing that can save us.

Is this twat related to the Perdue chicken family? 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:07 | 1720433 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Speaking of cwm: I present Okie, czarina, Hahvahd Perfesser Elizabeth Warren, who, oh by the way, knows how to run your life better than you do:

and this on CBS NEWS!

There's a utube of her ... er ... wisdom

- Ned

{I've gotta' find the RAH snippet on how Nemiah Scudder got elected.}

[Ed. -- Here's Elizabeth Warren,

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:37 | 1720642 Havana White
Havana White's picture

New Meat, you're a stupid fuck.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:19 | 1720735 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Come up to New England, these Hahvahd Yahd moonbat elitists wear pretty thin.  E. Warren window dressing for the BHO-era Bankster Takeoff....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:06 | 1720457 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Edit: Perdue was a lawyer.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:56 | 1720690 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

was she a chicken lawyer perhaps?
here's a potential litigant no less.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 05:44 | 1721155 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...I believe she (and they) are just a tad too chicken to really resolve the issues at hand here DV.

The debt must be allowed to be destroyed.

There's a pissed off tidal wave of citizens (in countries across the globe) coming at them, questioning their wisdom, competence, motives and their fealty to the public, they supposedly represent...and their fallback position is always the same in times like this, they want to change the rules again to benefit themselves only.

It won't be long now, appeals to patriotism will begin very soon by these very same elites who just said we should sit down, shut up and submit to the machine they have created for us.

Welcome to the Machine.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:44 | 1720415 philipat
philipat's picture

Great thinking. Tell you what, let's start a new party that promises only the top 10% will be required to pay Federal Income taxes. That would end well?


Suggest you read the quotation from Tytler again.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:50 | 1720434 Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Why are people like you so retarded?  When your income distribution looks like this (, who do you think is going to end up paying the most in income tax?  Eventually wages will get cut to $1/hr in real terms and you people will be angry that they don't pay any of that in tax either.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:01 | 1720473 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

the ONLY reason we havent seen serious austerity measures here is because were coming up on an election...

then look out!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:49 | 1720430 zen0
zen0's picture

Democracies often devolve into totalitarian states. See Greek history.


This is why the Founding Fathers established a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY.

Y'all been duped by your state education.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:55 | 1720451 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

'spect u gotta' get the difference btwn the quote and the poster.   Just sayin'

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:00 | 1720465 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

What education?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:48 | 1720569 Esso
Esso's picture

I think they might've been referring to the K thru 12 prison/indoctrination complex.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:15 | 1720598 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Democracies often devolve into totalitarian states.

Yes, in large part due to the fact that narcissistic statists eventually dupe the populus and navigate their way into elected positions.  Then the cycle repeats as a new wave of psychopaths unseat the incumbents under the guise of "change."

It's like replacing one plank of a ship at a time.  Eventually, you have an entirely new vessel in the mold of the original, but with none of the original identity preserved.

We home-schoolers teach this.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:59 | 1720461 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Meanwhile, is everybody ready to btfd at 1480ish

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:40 | 1720657 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Orszag.  Ugh!  Another Princeton cocksucker indeed.  THIS is our "ELITE", Science Club geeks with bulging Adam's Apples and prominent noses, SO much smarter than us (LOL!) running our lives, for OUR OWN GOOD!  See, e.g., M. Bloomberg, R. Emanuel, B. Bernanke, et. al.  Fuckers.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:52 | 1720389 Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Yeah, you mean like the free-loading bottom 40% of the country that makes .4% of the income?


Correction:  The bottom 40% take home .3% of the income.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:57 | 1720456 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

What human institution is not temporary in nature? Dictatorships have been collapsing pretty quick lately and not many kings around. We don't have real democracy in US anyway - can only vote for two parties and both are pretty much the same.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:19 | 1720608 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Greece alternates between military dictatorship and socialist utopia.  They don't care about any democracy stuff.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:34 | 1720766 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

The hell of it is, almost 50% of US citizens happen to have nothing. As in no savings, no assets, less income than it takes to pay for the bare necessities, etc. Hardly a "lucky ducky" scenario. If they were living high on the hog, that would be one thing, but they're not. They pay nothing because they have nothing. Res Ipsa Loquitur.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 12:55 | 1722393 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Thank you.  This is why those shrill shrieks are so ridiculous.  It's the same with unemployment.  Unemployment is no flippin' party.  It pays maybe 40% of your salary for 26 weeks.  When mortgage/rent alone eat up about 40% of your paycheck, how much of the good life can you live with the couple bucks left over?  I swear, the people who squeal the loudest about unemployment have never been on unemployment.  And they'll find they've been digging their own graves too with the class warfare rhetoric when SFHTF.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:58 | 1720808 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture


try Alexis de Tocqueville

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:55 | 1720269 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture

Pangalos had last year 850,000 euros income

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:06 | 1720313 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"My name is Theodore Pangalos and I made my money the old fashioned way.  I inherited it.  Oh yeah, and I ripped it off from my countrymen by spewing bullshit as far and wide as the eye can see and the ear can hear." 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:10 | 1720593 warchopper
warchopper's picture

Good point. If he is unable to pay his coming tax bill, how in the world are ordinary Greeks going to pay theirs?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:42 | 1720662 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture

The funny thing is that Pangalos voted "yes" for this Socialist tax. And now he says he has no money to pay while he has annual income of 850 thousand euros.

He is a Karagiozis

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:01 | 1720699 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Panglossian indeed. "I had to sell some property that's been in the family forever" he says. What he didn't say is "I JUST BOUGHT A WHOLE FRICKEN ISLAND HARDY, HARDY, HAR....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:57 | 1720271 Iriestx
Iriestx's picture

And they'll have a rumored fix for this tomorrow AM and we'll melt up +400 on no volume based on that rumor.  It's amazing, if they can keep Greece on the edge of default they can continually manufacture one rumor after another about how the latest problem is now fixed and float the market +200 anytime they want.  They don't even have to fix anything.  


They've priced in the latest 'Greece is saved' rumor to the tune of about 3000 points by now. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:13 | 1720338 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Don't forget about knocking down gold and silver. 

I can't figure out why Greeks, Irish, Portuguese, etc. aren't converting all of their money into metals.  They should be shaking that their Euro accounts will get converted into something else and then "devalued" for their own good, of course.  They should get some Argentinians, Brazilians and Russians on the phone to hear how quickly their money can lose value.  Hell, they could talk to some Americans from 1933 that could tell you how quickly a government can devalue its currency 75%. 

FDR stood for "Fucked in De Rear".  Just ask dollar holders. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:26 | 1720366 philipat
philipat's picture

Gold is being pushed down by the Central Banks to ensure that China doesn't doesn't start to get any difficult ideas. It won't matter because they will do it anyway through other dollar-denominated commodites which will provide better returns that Treasuries. And of course six pack Joe will be stuffed again.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:01 | 1720469 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Greeks, Irish , Portugese can easily move most of their money to a 'safer' country's bank in Euro's.

If they end up with a new currency which presumably plummets against the euro, they can just withdraw  it gradually and convert to the new currency. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:01 | 1720702 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Bravo, do we not have a few Greeks to tell us why there has been no general run on Greek banks?  This is vitally important to understanding our end game.  Is the Government pushing advertising touting bank safety or some FDIC like scheme?  Why are the Greek banks not empty of deposits at this point?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:17 | 1720730 Placerville
Placerville's picture

What is so ridiculous is that Greece is the smallest of the problem countries.

It's been a constant stream of BS about talking about talking about having a meeting to talk about it some more.

This is worse than the games played at kindergarten.


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:22 | 1720744 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

here's the latest one:
yep. looks good for the opening. still...gonna need a clean-up committee once the victory is achieved.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:55 | 1720272 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

And on and on it goes. Got fatigue?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:56 | 1720276 TyIer Durden
TyIer Durden's picture

Yes, I am very happy about this. Definitely the way to go.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:04 | 1720302 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:05 | 1720310 TyIer Durden
TyIer Durden's picture


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:07 | 1720315 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

how did tyler approve your account, WTF!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:15 | 1720344 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I think a case of Schlitz and a Tombstone pizza changed hands on that one. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:33 | 1720392 HiHoAg
HiHoAg's picture

My hedge is Thunderbird and Totinos....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:54 | 1720446 long-shorty
long-shorty's picture

that is the best account ever. says great things about this site that it got approved.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:08 | 1720493 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:28 | 1720379 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Eat more chickn.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:33 | 1720391 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

hey, ned, had my first troll fight, some fools were talkin' trash about you....

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:45 | 1720418 jomama
jomama's picture

you're like a 7 year old who just got a new super soaker.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:42 | 1720560 old naughty
old naughty's picture

@ TyIer

You again?

Five meats and 7 !s


Oh sht, thats an "I"

never mind...





Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:07 | 1720716 Rockfish
Rockfish's picture

You sound like my 3 year old grand daughter throwing a tantrum. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:25 | 1720364 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

My computer froze and I had to reboot..

I was going to say:

" Stay out of the comments, you're being a chatty little bitch today.."


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:21 | 1720525 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Wow. -10 votes. The mouth breathers are really spiking up da'shite. LOL

Woman in the red dress peeps clawing at the illusion of fraud.

Quite classy, and these candidates will be lined up thru Obama care medical requirements. At the end of the day, planned obsolescence will arrive in the 5 day mail service postbox.

But Atomizer, I'm about to retire. How can we generate new contributors to pay into the system so my investment is fore filled? Can you help this retired guy out?

Yes I can old man.. Your fucked in believing in rainbows of gold treasures. Your years of prosperity lead you to believe in big government watching over your nest egg. At the end of the day, your money was being used to attract new sucker's to pay off the monies the government didn't have to pay under an agreement through SS/Medicare payroll deductions.

Perhaps you need a new Headhunter

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:47 | 1720893 totem
totem's picture

Tyler has split himself into "good Tyler" / "bad TyIer"... which one is which is a matter of perspective.

Timmy says he can deduct the bad one though, so that's good.  Or not.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:56 | 1720277 sangell
sangell's picture

Well then, start selling Pangalos. If you 'inherited' that much, been a senior government official and NEVER bought any property in your entire life, I'd suggest you've been living large and never paid much tax to begin with. Time you started.

In fact, its time the EU stopped fooling around with you deadbeats and you started meeting real 'debt collectors'. The kind that take a baseball bat to your kneecaps. You've got the money, you just don't wanna pay and you thing by threatening to collapse the whole European economy you can get out of your debts. I'd rather see you hobbling on crutches!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:03 | 1720292 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>I'd rather see you hobbling on crutches!

Proof that taxation = robbery

Increasing the collection of taxes will only accelerate the economic self-cannibalization and destruction of civilization.


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:10 | 1720323 sangell
sangell's picture

This guy is a senior figure in the Greek government. He didn't get there yesterday. His ilk borrowed the money to win elections. If he's got multiple properties ( and I bet they are nice ones) let him sell a few. The notion that government officials can run their nations off a cliff, leave the people with the bill and retire to some grand estate has got to end.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:11 | 1720329 philipat
philipat's picture

Remember, though, that in Greece NONE of the professional classes, Doctors, Lawyers etc) who collect fees direct from clients pay ANY taxes. The grey economy is far larger than the real economy. So whilst I agree with the essence of your point, Greece is very much a special case and cannot expect to survive through the ongoing generosity of hard-working (And taxpaying) neighbours.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:39 | 1720408 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

If the grey market is as large as you say it is, then Greece will do just fine.

And the right thing to do is to tear up the Greek bonds. The bondholders who contracted with the Greek government to rob unwilling third-parties and to enslave future generations deserve nothing.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:49 | 1720429 philipat
philipat's picture

I would suggest that anarchy was the cause not the solution. As you suggest.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:51 | 1720554 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

When it comes to human society, there is nothing more rationally structured than a spontaneous web of relationships based on voluntary exchange. In such a free market, security and arbitration services can be provided just like any other economic good - these work like an immune system to keep the market healthy. Statism means the violent abolition of that portion of the market, and the errection of a criminal monopoly that destroys market price information for those services. Like a retrovirus, statism destroys the free market's immune system. Statism is like HIV, and Greece is in the terminal stages of AIDS.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 05:06 | 1721112 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Thus the high quality of life in Somalia where there effectively is no state and in most of Russia where the security services are generally available to the highest bidder.


Highest quality of life is in places with relatively strong governments that aren't completely dominated by ruling class - Australia, Canada examples.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 14:43 | 1723036 ffart
ffart's picture

Russia has hardly ever been in a state of anarchy. In fact I would put it right up there with Canada in terms of statist governments. My question about Somalia, is if they're so damn poor how do they afford the guns and bombs to kill each other with? And if all they do is kill each other how have they all not starved to death in the first place. Unfortunately, I think the answer is foreign intervention into their affairs by organizations such as the U.N.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:08 | 1720482 philipat
philipat's picture

But I do agree that Greece should default and that the Banks holding the bonds should NOT be bailed out. There is too much capacity and the taxpayers of neighbouring countries shouldn't be expected to pay for either Greek profligacy or the stupidity of the Banks who allowed them to be so. Do what Sweden did and temporarily nationalise them, first wiping out all the bond and equity holders, boards and managements. The Banks are performing no socially valuable purpose anyway.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:04 | 1720484 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture


Oh, they deserve something....but it's something we dont discuss in polite company.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:34 | 1720633 strenue
strenue's picture

Its the Greek political economy that will fall on hard times. Wah, wah, wah, wah.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:01 | 1720288 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Better check the Acropolis Tittle....G Pap may have sold the same RE a dozen times....or more.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:19 | 1720737 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Yup. Linda Green signed all the legal forms on that one too.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:01 | 1720289 monopoly
monopoly's picture


Well said. They got it right now. Man, this is going to get so ugly.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:03 | 1720295 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Burn, baby, burn

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:03 | 1720297 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

I've been preppin' for wasted effort here......

Urban Zombies........come heavy......

All decent CITIZENS welcomed in my house.................

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:04 | 1720298 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

It is funny to see the unions act like they are the standard bearers for workers everywhere.  Just today I got to see all the union guys building the lack of "Freedom Tower", union carpenters protesting on 2nd Avenue and some other union protesting on 3rd Avenue.  Oh, and I got to see one of those giant rats inflated on 45th or 46th Street.  You know the rats I'm talking about.  The ones that the unions use to intimidate anybody that won't give them what they want.

In none of these scenes did I see people that I would want my name associated with.  Instead I saw groups of people that looked entitled, arrogant and really fat.  They must be paid well because how else could they be that fat?  And I won't even mention all of the NYPD (unionites) with their little wheeled carts standing around, waiting to strip their fellow citizens out of their constitutional rights and dreaming of their cushy retirements. 


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:12 | 1720332 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

safety pins are good answers for inflatable rats (and police pension plans)....slow leaks they won't even know is there until it's too late...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:05 | 1720300 chump666
chump666's picture

Kick Greece out before the whole EZ implodes! Eurobonds will be a tax on the whole EZ just to bail out useless ecomomies.  Merkel is sending Germany headlong into a major vote backlash... which isn't a good thing with Germany's past etc.

Take the pain!  Europe gets maybe 6mths of a depression/turmoil after Greece is booted out.  Italy gets their sh*t togther, as does Spain and the EU survives. Just.  If Germany does the 40% + tax on the German people via Eurobonds...Germany leaves the EU/Euro.  Then the whole region collapses into a total mess + China crash = the end.

Just kick out Greece ASAP...and quickly restructure their union. Otherwise they are f*cking doomed.


Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:32 | 1720387 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Better idea: Kick germany, france and the netherlands out auf the EUR.

I'm serious, and i'm saying this as a german. The above three countries are what turns the EMU into the economic structure that it is.... to the disadvantage of all populations in the EMU, and advantage to a bunch of parasites, whom i really don't give a fuck about.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:30 | 1720626 chump666
chump666's picture

The Greeks didn't even tax their shipping industry! I mean it's a free lunch 24/7 and Germany/France/Holland are going to pay off debt of the Greeks!  Aint gonna happen.  It's disgusting and not how the free markets work.  If you are a sh*t business you go bankrupt, if your country is a sh*t economy it goes bankrupt. Simple.

Respect for the Germans and Dutch

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:37 | 1720406 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

When one goes, they'll all go. That's why the PTB are working so hard to keep that from happening.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:15 | 1720304 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Pangalos owns 58 properties, has half a million a year income and can't pay 7.000 Euros. They need to change the rules immediately: TRTPT (too rich to pay taxes).

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:12 | 1720506 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

That is funny, especially this part 'Pangalos confused the tax with the ’7,500 potato chips he eats per meal’;

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:06 | 1720312 monopoly
monopoly's picture

We going to test the recent lows in Asia tonight. Gold just broke another support. 1,585 now. Never said it was easy. I imagine all the new comers are long gone. At some point this will reverse and move much higher. Exactly why none here are on margin. RIGHT???

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:26 | 1720368 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

My whole fucking life is on margin.  Just kidding.  I just wanted to type that.  I thought it would be pretty cool.  Move along. 

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:36 | 1720402 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"Gold just broke another support. 1,585 now."

Sorry, that's my fault. This afternoon I bought a couple hundred dollars worth of Oct calls. What can I say, no horse races today.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:27 | 1720620 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

>80 oz @ $897 avg cost.  All physical, no margin, not all in one location, well protected and only accessible by me.  Heavy maples rounded out by a mix of pre-1933, buffaloes, philharmonics, pandas, and kruggs.

I'm not losing sleep over a 1,585 paper price.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:09 | 1720320 Peak Everything
Peak Everything's picture

I don't get why the average Greek person still has money in their banks.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:14 | 1720342 pasttense
pasttense's picture

I think it is reasonable to have your monthly expenses in the local bank, but not your long-term wealth.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:27 | 1720372 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

They should have their monthly expenses in their sock drawer. 
