














Comments     Threshold


RE: I hate ethanol
By Danger D on 1/22/2009 11:34:58 AM , Rating: -1
So the alternative is cellulosic ethanol. Why don't we just use that then? Oh yeah, it's not yet commercially viable. People love trying to poke holes in whatever solution starts to gain traction. They then cry praises for a range of currently unavailable technology to take us to the promised land.
Corn ethanol is better than gasoline. It's here now. It works in our gas tanks so we don't have to overhaul the vehicle fleet with new fuel systems. It uses a feedstock that we currently know how to grow, harvest and transport.
I do firmly believe cellulosic ethanol will be a reality, but only because corn ethanol is currently creating the infrastructure, market and public awareness necessary to change over our fuel supply.
The only real alternative to corn ethanol today is regular gasoline, which pollutes more and provides income for our foreign enemies.

RE: I hate ethanol
By JasonMick (blog) on 1/22/2009 12:06:40 PM , Rating: 1

Incorrect. Corn-based ethanol increased carbon dioxide and other emissions and uses an equally toxic slew of chemicals to process as gasoline.

To cite just a few studies:


Again, ridiculous. Cellulosic ethanol is IDENTICAL chemically to corn ethanol, barring a few minor organic contaminants. Cars could run on cellulosic E10 just as easily as corn-based E10. And are you inferring that we don't have the technology to harvest corn stover? Or that our nation grows no plants that produce crop waste byproducts? If you are, you're entirely wrong.

If you want to call yourself an environmentalist, you really can't support corn ethanol.

Its better to wait and work towards a good solution, than to adopt one that only makes the problem worse. Again, I've talked to many experts with industry experience far beyond yours or mine and they say corn ethanol is ultimately a horrible proposition (in so many words). The ONLY people corn ethanol benefits is farmers and refinery owners.

Its bad for the environment, polluting, and bad for the consumers' pocketbooks. The holes are being poked because its a bad technology, plain and simple.

RE: I hate ethanol
By Danger D on 1/22/2009 1:02:18 PM , Rating: 2
Greenhouse gas emmisions study released TODAY by Dr. Ken Cassman and others, published in Yale's Journal of Industrial Ecology:

"Direct-effect GHG emissions were estimated to be equivalent to a 48 percent to 59 percent reduction compared to gasoline, a twofold to threefold greater reduction than reported in previous studies."

Why? Because the studies you cited "rely on estimates of energy efficiencies in older ethanol plants that were built before the recent investment boom in new ethanol biorefineries that initiated production on or after January 2005."

Those new facilities represent 60 percent of the ethanol produced.

If you average in the old plants, sure it looks worse. But that's an unfair basis for saying we shouldn't build new plants. New plants are better, and they keep improving.

There's plenty of other research out there showing GHG reductions.

And I understand cellulosic ethanol is IDENTICAL. Ethanol's ethanol. My point is that it's useless to rave about using techology that isn't commercially viable. We've been doing that for 20 years and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Corn ethanol will get us to cellulosic ethanol. But don't trash the "good" in pursuit of the "perfect."

RE: I hate ethanol
By Screwballl on 1/22/2009 1:23:26 PM , Rating: 2
Also remember that many of the older studies used vehicles that did not have the same pollution controls that newer 2004-later vehicles have.
These pollution controls force the engine to work harder thus use more gas thus lower mileage and release more pollution.

Why is it a 1990 Geo Metro with a 4 cylinder can get 45 mpg yet a 2008 model car with the same size engine is rated at 30mpg (and they advertise it as if 30mpg was some great prize)? Hell 5 years ago I had a 76 GMC truck with a 350 V8, 4 barrel Edelbrock carburetor, NO pollution controls of any kind (previous owners removed them) and when it was tuned to run slightly lean and I kept my foot off the gas pedal, I could see 30 mpg part city, part highway. Usually city mpg was around 26mpg, and highway was 32-33mpg when I drove it like an old lady.

I only tried E10 in there once... made it run like crap, even driving like an old lady I still only saw 22mpg plus I had to clean the jets because the Ethanol clogged them.

RE: I hate ethanol
By MrBlastman on 1/22/2009 1:57:36 PM , Rating: 5
What planet are you from? Do you live in Antarctica? I generally refrain from spearheaded counterpoints but your post has so much wrong in it I can not help but turn the heat on.

Ethanol uses food currently. Food we eat.

That food we eat grows on land, a non-renewable resource, which can yield either food to eat or food to burn in our tanks.

The net yield of all the land in America is barely enough to yield enough ethanol to fuel America.

This net yield would create a net zero yield of food crops.

A net zero yield of food crops would create a huge increase on reliance of food imports from abroad.

Have you looked at China lately and all of the food problems they have caused over here?

Do you honestly want to bet your own life on food imported from sources that have proven to be harmful to our citizens - from sources that are far less regulated than those in our own country?

The result thus far of paying farmers to grow more fuel crops has been a substantial increase in food prices for consumable crops. The farmers make more if they grow stuff that we burn.

The economy has gone to heck - and you say we should pay more?

Oil prices have dropped considerably, which had risen not because of logic but because of irrational spot price trading. OPEC cut supply and the prices still dropped.

Ethanol costs more now than it would be to use gasoline.

Ethanol produces less power output than gasoline with our current, gasoline-tuned engines.

Ethanol could be useful if we had engines tuned for it, lighter cars that needed less energy to propel, and if it is produced from waste products rather than food sources.

Can I be any clearer?

Ethanol, in its current form, is rediculous. It isn't even worth any praise. Cellulosic ethanol, or waste product ethanol, is a huge step in the right direction for a change. We'll see how it turns out. Personally, I'm bigger on the algae farms pooping out oil as a waste product of its photosynthesis while hanging in plastic bags. It is more logical to me... for the time being.

RE: I hate ethanol




RE: I hate ethanol

RE: I hate ethanol



RE: I hate ethanol


