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One-on-One With Kathleen Sebelius; The Heart of Dick Cheney; Thirteen-Year-Old Aims To Stop Bullying

Aired October 27, 2013 - 16:30   ET


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN HOST: Two big news making interviews to get to today including my candid conversation with former vice president Dick Cheney about his heart. You're going to hear about this unprecedented move he made right after taking office.

But first, the president's new health care law. You know, Congress started hearings this week why the Web site is such a mess, people have been talking about this and Kathleen Sebelius whose Health and Human Services Department runs the site wasn't at this hearing. But she is going to be at the big hearing which is next week.

More people, not just opponents of Obamacare, but a few supporters as well, are now calling on the president to delay the individual mandate, this idea that people must have insurance or pay a penalty.


GUPTA: The concern is if there's this idea that people had a hard time signing up and they didn't get signed up for whatever reason on time, can they still be penalized? Can you penalize people if it was so cumbersome to get signed up in the first place?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Well, I think the reality is that people, as I just said, can sign up any of three ways and more are being able to do it every day --

GUPTA: Does it mean the Web site is not that important, then?

SEBELIUS: It is certainly a tool and we think it can be an easy tool for people who are tech savvy and want to use a Web site and we're determined that it be a lot easier than it is right now. What I know, though, and -- is that lots of people and people I talk to every day are not tech savvy, want a live human being to sit and answer questions, want to talk to someone over the phone, want to talk to their friends and neighbors about what health care providers in the network and then go back and ask some questions.

So, we anticipated at the outset that everyone would never use the Web site. That needs to be part of the opportunity. The market is at the end of the day what it is. This isn't the Web site. It's about health care and about affordable plans.

GUPTA: So just, yes or no, is there any way that the individual mandate would be delayed? SEBELIUS: Well, I don't think that that really is the question right now.

GUPTA: Did you try signing on the site myself?

SEBELIUS: I have created an account on the site. I have not tried signing up because I have insurance.

GUPTA: You have insurance. Did you find it challenging? What did you think of it?

SEBELIUS: Well, I think there are certainly some challenges. It could be smoother. It could be easier to access and that's really what we're working on. I mean, nobody says the site is working the way we want it to. Certainly the president acknowledged that yesterday. No one could be more frustrated than I am, and the president, that this isn't smooth.

People are signing up every day. People have available coverage. And no one, I think it's important to say, Sanjay, is losing coverage now. The earliest the plans start is January 1st. If you sign up by the 15th of December, you will have coverage on day one.


GUPTA: Like the secretary said, if you're getting new coverage, you need to enroll by mid-December in order to have that coverage in place by January 1st. I'll tell you, there's been some confusion about this deadline, the deadline to avoid paying a fine. Shortly after my interview the White House issued this guidance to clear it up, if you don't already have insurance, you do have until March 31st to sign up with the plan.

But do keep in mind that aside from the Web site you can apply by phone, that's going to take up to three weeks to get confirmation, and that's before you can browse plans to figure out your actual cost. And even after that, it takes time to make a smart choice.

So, if you're signing up, the point is you don't want to wait for this until the last minute. You can also see more of my exclusive interview with Kathleen Sebelius at

But up next on SGMD, from the truth is stranger than fiction department, Dick Cheney. He tells me about the surprising move his doctor made to protect his heart from terrorists.


GUPTA: You know, most people have a pretty strong opinion of Dick Cheney. Whatever you think of him, you may be surprised to know over the past 35 years, he's had five heart attacks, open heart surgery, a heart pump, even a heart transplant at the age of 71. All of this is revealed in a new book it's called "Heart", he's written with his cardiologist Jonathan Reiner. He was so concerned about his health that two months after taking the oath as vice president, he took this unprecedented action. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD B. CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: Basically, what I did was I resigned the vice presidency effective March 28, 2001.


CHENEY: Pending.

GUPTA: Pending.

(voice-over): Cheney discovered there was no provision in the Constitution to replace a vice president who is alive, but incapacitated. So he drew up a letter of resignation to give to the president.


GUPTA (on camera): How did President Bush react when you told him about this?

CHENEY: A little surprised. But he thought it was a good idea.

GUPTA (voice-over): It was just three years ago Cheney says that people gasped, when they saw how frail he had become. Today, just 20 months after his heart transplant, Cheney's weight is back to normal, the color has returned to his skin -- he has no shortness of breath.

(on camera): How are you feeling?







CHENEY: They said that in the medical records.

GUPTA: They didn't tell you that?


GUPTA: Patients like to hear what they want to hear.




GUPTA (on camera): Looking back, do you think the stress affected your heart disease and your overall health?

CHENEY: I simply don't buy the notion that it contributed to my heart disease. It was in fact that getting back to work, getting back to that job, whatever that job might be, was important enough that I, in fact, kept them separate, I guess would be the way to think about it. GUPTA: But I do wonder, as a doctor, is that really plausible? Can you really keep such a significant medical history and such a significant job separate?

CHENEY: I did.

GUPTA (voice-over): But when George W. Bush asked Cheney to be his running mate in 2000, there was enough concern that the Bush campaign sought out the opinion of world renowned Texas heart surgeon Denton Cooley.


(on camera): The normal cardiac function wasn't true. CHENEY: I'm not responsible for that. I didn't know what took place between the doctors.


CHENEY: Go ask Denton Cooley about that.

GUPTA: But sir, you saw it.


GUPTA: How were they able to say that you were able to do the job?

CHENEY: The way I look at it, Sanjay, is that first of all, I didn't seek the job. The president came to me and asked me to be his vice president. The party nominated me. The doctors that consulted on it reached a common conclusion and the people elected me.


GUPTA (voice-over): Despite Cheney's insistence that he was fit for office, and just four months after being cleared by his doctors, Cheney suffered another heart attack, his fourth.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you read to take the oath of office?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please raise your hand and repeat after me.




CHENEY: Didn't occur to me.

GUPTA: Not at all?


GUPTA (voice-over): But what Cheney didn't know was that his cardiologist Jonathan Reiner had received the results of a blood test that morning showing his potassium levels were dangerously high, a condition called hyperkalemia.

(on camera): Big concern, I mean, how big are we talking about?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CARDIOLOGIST: Potassium of 6.9 can kill you.

GUPTA: This is a huge problem.

REINER: Yes. I laid awake that night, you know, watching the replays of the towers come down and now thinking that, "Oh great, the vice president's going to die tonight from hyperkalemia."

GUPTA (voice-over): Another blood test the next day showed Cheney's potassium levels were normal. But this level of scrutiny over Dick Cheney's health is a reminder he is no ordinary patient. And caring for him often required extraordinary precautions.

In 2007, when Cheney needed his implanted defibrillator replaced, Dr. Reiner ordered the manufacturer to disable the wireless feature -- fearing a terrorist could assassinate the vice president by sending a signal to the device, telling it to shock his heart into cardiac arrest.

REINER: And it seemed to me to be a bad idea for the vice president to have a device that maybe somebody on a rope line or someone in the next hotel room or downstairs might be able to get into -- hack into. And I worried that someone could kill you.

GUPTA: It might sound farfetched, but years later this scene from the Showtime drama "Homeland" showed just how it could be done to the fictional vice president.

(on camera): What did you think when you watched that?

CHENEY: Well, I was aware of the danger, if you will, that existed but I found it credible because I know from the experience we had and the necessity for adjusting my own device that it was an accurate portrayal of what was possible.

GUPTA (voice-over): The precariousness of Cheney's physical health raises questions about his state of mind when he was helping make decisions, including those about war and peace.

(on camera): You were instrumental in many big decisions for the country, including going into Afghanistan and Iraq.

CHENEY: And terrorist surveillance programs and enhanced interrogation programs--


CHENEY: Right.

GUPTA: Did you worry about your physical health impacting your judgment and your cognition?


GUPTA: Not at all?


GUPTA: Were you the best you could be?




You didn't know about it and you weren't worried about it?


GUPTA: Both? No one --

CHENEY: I wasn't worried about it.

GUPTA: Did anyone counsel you at all on that?

CHENEY: Not that I recall.

GUPTA: What about even things like depression?




GUPTA: Cheney and Dr. Reiner wanted to show us just how dramatic his transformation has been.


REINER: This is a rather large basin. And here is your heart.

CHENEY: It's the one I lived with for 70 years.


GUPTA (on camera): Old heart, new heart.


GUPTA (voice-over): That's because a bigger heart can't effectively pump blood through the body.


And then there's this comparison -- again on the left, Cheney's diseased heart - weakened, with narrowed arteries. And his new heart -- with healthy vessels and no blockages.

CHENEY: Dramatically displays how sick I was.

GUPTA: Today, Cheney says he's taking good care of his new heart. He spends much of his time back in Wyoming with his family -- and playing rodeo hand to granddaughter Gracie.


GUPTA (on camera): You know, magical, wonderment, you're words. Those aren't words you typically hear, or expect to hear from you --

CHENEY: Like Darth Vader. No, that's -- well, those are the words I choose to describe it.


GUPTA: There's another message from Dick Cheney as well and that's important for all of us: if you're having any symptoms at all, make sure to get them checked out. It's part of the reason he's alive today.

We're going to be right back with one little boy, one massive goal: bullying, no way.


GUPTA: A decade ago, Jaylen Arnold became the youngest person ever diagnosed with complex Tourette's syndrome. Today, he's leading the charge to put an end to bullying for students across the country.


JAYLEN ARNOLD, HAS TOURETTE'S SYNDROME: I'm Jaylen, and I have Tourette's syndrome. And I used to get bullied for that a lot.







DASH MIHOK, ACTOR: I was a fighter.





MIHOK: We going to bullying, no way?

CROWD: Bullying, no way!


GUPTA: I tell you, if you are a parent out there, bullying is one of those things you can't stop thinking about. Here's the bracelet, by the way, that Jaylen created, again, bullying, no way. Great message. Now, before we go, Thursday is Halloween and for my three girls at least, that means candy, candy, and more candy. I'm a pretty diligent dad. But you know what this means.

Here's something else to consider: on October 31st, the average child consumes the equivalent of 4,800 calories, 1.5 1/2 of fat, and three cups of sugar. Just think about that.

I want to give you some tips on how to have a healthier Halloween. Eat dinner as a family before you trick-or-treat. Makes perfect sense. Walk your route instead of hopping in the car. Also, give your kids a deadline for enjoying their candy and then toss out what's left over or freeze it for later. That's what we do in our home.

That's all the time we have for today.

"CNN NEWSROOM" with Don Lemon continues after a quick break.