(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[8.00]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi] GN[ING Redmond Cup Senior Division - Final Playoff Round 1 - 2008 US Go Congress - Gan Sheng Shi (7d) vs Cherry Shen (6d)]PW[Gan Sheng Shi]PB[Cherry Shen]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2008-08-04]EV[ING Redmond Cup]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Calvin Lee]RE[W+3.00] ;B[pd] ;W[dp] ;B[qp] ;W[dd] ;B[oq] ;W[qj] ;B[fc] ;W[qf] ;B[nd] ;W[id] ;B[fe] ;W[cf] ;B[db] ;W[cc] ;B[ib] ;W[rd] ;B[qh] ;W[of]C[teamochi [9k\]: black likes this opening? ] ;B[pi] ;W[qc] ;B[pj]C[usgo14 [-\]: cherry has gotten out of her seat DeepTuna [2k\]: ??? usgo14 [-\]: Probably a trip to the restroom usgo14 [-\]: To anyone just joining us, this is the first round of playoffs for the Redmond Cup usgo14 [-\]: In preliminary rounds there was a three-way tie between Gan Sheng, Cherry, and Will Zhou, who all had 4-1 records. ] ;W[gd] ;B[fd] ;W[hb]C[usgo14 [-\]: Will will play the winner of this round ] ;B[hc] ;W[ic] ;B[gb] ;W[jb] ;B[ha]C[usgo14 [-\]: Then the loser of this match the loser of that match play each other usgo14 [-\]: Whoever loses twice is eliminated usgo14 [-\]: Then the remaining two play for the title YangX [4d\]: best of 3? YangX [4d\]: or just 1 game ] ;W[kc]C[usgo14 [-\]: 1 game usgo14 [-\]: There will be four matches in these playoffs usgo14 [-\]: Rnd #1 Cherry Shen vs Gansheng Shi Will Zhou vs bye rnd #2 Will Zhou vs rnd #1 winner rnd #3 rnd#1 loser vs round #2 loser (loser eliminated) Rnd #4 rnd#2 winner vs rnd#3 winner ] ;B[ld]C[YangX [4d\]: so these 2 might have 2 play again? ] ;W[mc]C[usgo14 [-\]: If Will loses to both of them, yes ] ;B[md] ;W[nc]C[YangX [4d\]: well.....say cherry wins YangX [4d\]: and gan loses YangX [4d\]: cherry plays will and loses littlenemo [?\]: hi yang, sorry you aren't here this year - Paul YangX [4d\]: now cherry and gan both hav 1 loss YangX [4d\]: and therefore havta play each other again? YangX [4d\]: ah YangX [4d\]: hello paul YangX [4d\]: im rele sad about not being able to b there T_T littlenemo [?\]: we are having fun here :) YangX [4d\]: glad to hear that =\] ] ;B[mg] ;W[pc]C[littlenemo [?\]: I was sure I would see you here YangX [4d\]: in the beginning of the summer, i was pretty sure id b there 2 YangX [4d\]: T_T littlenemo [?\]: next year my friend, be 7 dan by then okay? YangX [4d\]: haha, 7d, no way YangX [4d\]: im gonna go for atl east 9d YangX [4d\]: at least* YangX [4d\]: =D ] ;B[fq] ;W[ip] ;B[fo] ;W[dn]C[littlenemo [?\]: haha, okay ^_^ ] ;B[kp] ;W[eq]C[YangX [4d\]: i still dont get the pairing thing though -.-' usgo14 [-\]: its the best way to resolve the 3-way tie. what part is confusing? YangX [4d\]: is it possible that these 2 play again? YangX [4d\]: cuz if will beats te winner usgo14 [-\]: yes, it is usgo14 [-\]: whoever loses twice is out - thats the underlying premise YangX [4d\]: ah, ok, thats wat got me confused YangX [4d\]: thx ] ;B[fr] ;W[in] ;B[fm] ;W[kn] ;B[dl] ;W[cl] ;B[ck] ;W[cm] ;B[cg] ;W[dg] ;B[ch] ;W[bf] ;B[dh] ;W[eg]C[Rucker [1k\]: how many people are in the redmond cup? YangX [4d\]: well ] ;B[eh]C[YangX [4d\]: there was a qualifier online a while back ] ;W[lq]C[YangX [4d\]: 10 seniors YangX [4d\]: and 9 juniors Rucker [1k\]: ok because im looking on the aga website it has like 3 names xD Rucker [1k\]: and i was like ummm Rucker [1k\]: thats weird Rucker [1k\]: is landon doing it this year? usgo14 [-\]: Landon is too old now ] ;B[lp] ;W[kq]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng has 74 minutes of his time left, Cherry has 57 Rucker [1k\]: ahh ok Rucker [1k\]: cherry is going to win it this year then ^^ littlenemo [?\]: this is the finals, that is why so few are listed on the site littlenemo [?\]: haha, I am rooting for Cherry too littlenemo [?\]: she was second place last year ] ;B[mq] ;W[jp]C[YangX [4d\]: same =D ] ;B[mp] ;W[rp]C[YangX [4d\]: gan sheng took a won game from me =/ usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng is actually relatively unknown; he's from Canada and just got back from training in China YangX [4d\]: woah, training... =O.... ] ;B[qo] ;W[mn]C[littlenemo [?\]: yeah, but cherry was just training in china too ;p YangX [4d\]: why dont i ever have that happen to me T_T littlenemo [?\]: hahaha, you have to make it happen YangX [4d\]: how old is shi gan sheng? ] ;B[cq]C[littlenemo [?\]: your folks do a lot for you though, so you can't complain YangX [4d\]: true littlenemo [?\]: I think gansheng is 16 or 17 YangX [4d\]: ic ] ;W[er] ;B[co]C[YangX [4d\]: lol, we need younger finalist, young ppl dont stand a chance XD littlenemo [?\]: hahaha dddaaa: Gan is 14. He was in Guiyang too. littlenemo [?\]: wow, he looks much older usgo14 [-\]: YangX, If I remember correctly it was the "young people" who claimed victory at the USWYGC last year in the Senior division ] ;W[fp]C[littlenemo [?\]: indeed, they crushed the older kids usgo14 [-\]: Even then, wait a few years. There are a ton of really strong kids in the Jr Div ] ;B[do]C[YangX [4d\]: rele? YangX [4d\]: it was landon wasnt it? usgo14 [-\]: That was the Redmond ] ;W[cp]C[YangX [4d\]: oo YangX [4d\]: ur right YangX [4d\]: =D YangX [4d\]: ya, hugh and calvin will b coming into the senior groups next yr right? usgo14 [-\]: I believe so YangX [4d\]: lol, my hope r getting smaller YangX [4d\]: hopes os winning* usgo14 [-\]: Calvin and Hugh were actually the Redmond finalists again this year usgo14 [-\]: But Calvin couldn't make it to congress YangX [4d\]: yeah littlenemo [?\]: they will all be 12 next year ] ;B[eo]C[YangX [4d\]: sigh...they grow up too fast -.-' YangX [4d\]: keep them for 1 more yr in the junior divison =D ] ;W[bo] ;B[ep] ;W[dq] ;B[gp] ;W[bp] ;B[ro] ;W[ir] ;B[cb] ;W[bb] ;B[lm] ;W[ln] ;B[dc] ;W[cd] ;B[nm]C[dddaaa: what time do they have left? YangX [4d\]: does anyone know how strong gansheng was before he went to china? usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 42 minutes usgo14 [-\]: I can't see Gan's clock from here ] ;W[oh]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan sheng has 66 minutes ] ;B[je] ;W[qg] ;B[ph]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: what is the redmond cup t0Strong4u [-\]: ? littlenemo [?\]: the most prestigious youth tournament in the US t0Strong4u [-\]: so these are youth players? littlenemo [?\]: 14 and 16 ] ;W[mf]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: left to right? littlenemo [?\]: yes usgo14 [-\]: I think Cherry's still 15 t0Strong4u [-\]: damn....im 15 and im nowhere near them ] ;B[lf] ;W[mh]C[YangX [4d\]: lol...there is hope for me YangX [4d\]: ~ ] ;B[ng] ;W[og]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: how old r u? ] ;B[nh]C[YangX [4d\]: 13 t0Strong4u [-\]: damn ] ;W[oi]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: do you have a go teacher? t0Strong4u [-\]: oh geez yang t0Strong4u [-\]: HHAHAHAHHAAHAHHA t0Strong4u [-\]: i know you YangX [4d\]: ?? YangX [4d\]: who are you? ] ;B[lh]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: not telling dude YangX [4d\]: do i know u? t0Strong4u [-\]: yes YangX [4d\]: -.-''' YangX [4d\]: 15..... t0Strong4u [-\]: =) whererd your 2d account go YangX [4d\]: hm... YangX [4d\]: lol ] ;W[nn]C[baltomazta [3k\]: doesnt cherry live in california? I think I've seen her before YangX [4d\]: haha, frosty is resting t0Strong4u [-\]: because he so weak right YangX [4d\]: yep =D usgo14 [-\]: yes she does, balto t0Strong4u [-\]: yang....is ricky playikng? t0Strong4u [-\]: laying** YangX [4d\]: yes t0Strong4u [-\]: oo YangX [4d\]: hes playing feng yun t0Strong4u [-\]: and jasmine? YangX [4d\]: >< t0Strong4u [-\]: ricky playing who? YangX [4d\]: jaz isnt in the Ing cup ] ;B[om]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: wait ricky....is what baltomazta [3k\]: I remember seeing some girl called cherry hang out with the high dan players at a party haha, guess that's her ] ;W[on]C[YangX [4d\]: 6d t0Strong4u [-\]: omg YangX [4d\]: ? t0Strong4u [-\]: zhangxia is ricky? t0Strong4u [-\]: i never knew t0Strong4u [-\]: hahahah YangX [4d\]: XDD usgo14 [-\]: please try and keep comments related to the game or the players :) t0Strong4u [-\]: sorry, hey yang im going to the feng yun game cu later t0Strong4u [-\]: sorry usgo ] ;B[pm] ;W[rh] ;B[ri]C[katori15 [5k\]: r10 is a thron ] ;W[sg] ;B[jm] ;W[jn]C[dddaaa: Cherry is beating him again!? ] ;B[fg] ;W[gm]C[Violence [?\]: well, Cherry is quite very strong ] ;B[hm]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 31 minutes, Gan sheng has 54 ] ;W[gn] ;B[hn] ;W[dk] ;B[el] ;W[ho] ;B[gl] ;W[cj] ;B[bk] ;W[bj]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng has looked unphased the entire game ] ;B[dj] ;W[ek] ;B[fk] ;W[ej] ;B[fj] ;W[di] ;B[ei] ;W[dj] ;B[cn] ;W[bn]C[littlenemo [?\]: cherry sighed just now ] ;B[jl] ;W[im] ;B[hl] ;W[il] ;B[ik]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: S10 ] ;W[ie] ;B[jd] ;W[jc] ;B[if] ;W[rj]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: can players read my comment? littlenemo [?\]: no katori15 [5k\]: r10 strikes again littlenemo [?\]: later they could if they look at it ] ;B[mr] ;W[lr] ;B[ls] ;W[ks]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: W is leading littlenemo [?\]: 50 min on gansheng's clock usgo14 [-\]: 16 on Cherry's ] ;B[hq] ;W[ms] ;B[iq] ;W[jq]C[katori15 [5k\]: ● t11 r11 t10 t12 t9 seems best ] ;B[jr] ;W[hp]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry shook her head a while after she placed k2 ] ;B[hr] ;W[is] ;B[ba] ;W[ab] ;B[nr]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: P10 ] ;W[mj] ;B[oj] ;W[ni] ;B[mi] ;W[lj]C[littlenemo [?\]: the President of the Canadian Go Association is watching the game now FlySpoon [1k\]: say hello to james littlenemo [?\]: haha, afterwards I will ] ;B[nj] ;W[km]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: go canada go ] ;B[lk]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: still playing katori15 [5k\]: can we get some reflection on the players? FlySpoon [1k\]: ? appleseeds [4k?\]: how much time now? usgo14 [-\]: Both players seem to have been counting their territorities usgo14 [-\]: territories* usgo14 [-\]: performing multiple estimates katori15 [5k\]: thank you usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 5 minutes on her clock, Gan Sheng has 30 ] ;W[li] ;B[kk]C[GaretJax [6k\]: this looks fun ] ;W[mh] ;B[lc]C[xliu [5d\]: go Cherry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GaretJax [6k\]: *cheers with xliu since he has no idea who to cheer for* GaretJax [6k\]: Saw your game by the way, you played well, very tenacious :) xliu [5d\]: haha thx ] ;W[lb] ;B[mi]C[katori15 [5k\]: ● d7 big enough? YangX [4d\]: cherry is gonna have time trouble ] ;W[hf] ;B[hg] ;W[mh] ;B[hs]C[GaretJax [6k\]: no way it's big enough. ] ;W[kl] ;B[jk] ;W[js] ;B[mi] ;W[mk] ;B[ml] ;W[mh] ;B[ko] ;W[jo] ;B[mi] ;W[jf] ;B[ig] ;W[mh] ;B[bi] ;W[kh] ;B[lg]C[cloudy [4d\]: has a lower rank won over a higher ranker today? cloudy [4d\]: i did not see one yet usgo14 [-\]: not that i know of katori15 [5k\]: I say no cloudy [4d\]: boring :) ] ;W[mi] ;B[aj]C[katori15 [5k\]: oof that looks early what about m13 ejen016 [6k\]: omg..what was w's last move? usgo14 [-\]: he filled the ko slinky [-\]: o.o? ejen016 [6k\]: so, l12 mistake? slinky [-\]: whos move? usgo14 [-\]: whites aussiemate [7k\]: l11 looks a good place ro cut usgo14 [-\]: I'm not really allowed to comment on the game joelw [12k\]: if u dont know where to move, taking a huge gote looks ok to me ] ;W[kf] ;B[kg] ;W[kd] ;B[jg] ;W[ke] ;B[qi] ;W[si]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry is in byo-yomi ] ;B[rl] ;W[ql] ;B[qm] ;W[pk] ;B[ok] ;W[rm] ;B[pl] ;W[qk]C[Intake [2d\]: t9 dddaaa: YangX, looks like Gan is taking a won game again. ] ;B[sk] ;W[sj]C[GaretJax [6k\]: taking a won game? ] ;B[bl] ;W[bm] ;B[ji] ;W[nf] ;B[le] ;W[od] ;B[oe] ;W[oc] ;B[ne] ;W[pe] ;B[bg] ;W[ee] ;B[ed] ;W[ef]C[YangX [4d\]: sigh............gan strikes again ] ;B[af] ;W[ae] ;B[ag] ;W[bd] ;B[go] ;W[dm] ;B[he] ;W[hd] ;B[ge] ;W[gc] ;B[hb] ;W[ff] ;B[gf] ;W[al] ;B[ci] ;W[en] ;B[fn] ;W[ki] ;B[pg] ;W[pf] ;B[jh] ;W[ll]C[gogobob [2k\]: ] ;B[qn]C[katori15 [5k\]: o8 ] ;W[mm]C[joelw [12k\]: looks bad ] ;B[oo] ;W[no] ;B[op] ;W[nl] ;B[ol] ;W[sh] ;B[rn] ;W[rk] ;B[sm] ;W[sl]C[GaretJax [6k\]: considering how big that ko looked, cherry did a good job of minimizing it ] ;B[es] ;W[ds] ;B[fs] ;W[rm] ;B[sn] ;W[kj] ;B[jj] ;W[rl] ;B[np] ;W[pn] ;B[po] ;W[ns] ;B[os] ;W[ls]C[joelw [12k\]: cherry in freeze the puck stage GaretJax [6k\]: freeze th puck? ] ;B[nk]C[McCrusty [1k\]: canadian lingo joelw [12k\]: hockey analogy, meaning dont let them score Over9k [5k\]: k19 katori15 [5k\]: national sport of canada is lacross GaretJax [6k\]: heh ] ;W[ja] ;B[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: f18 ] ;W[gg]C[ejen016 [6k\]: new zealand's rule could cause jigo YangX [4d\]: cherry makes a comeback? usgo14 [-\]: its ing rules GaretJax [6k\]: what's that? usgo14 [-\]: new zealand's the closest we have to it Over9k [5k\]: tie ] ;B[fh] ;W[nl] ;B[ak]C[GaretJax [6k\]: I know jigo ] ;W[am] ;B[ml]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: national sport of canada is curling GaretJax [6k\]: I don't know the nz rules ] ;W[or] ;B[pr] ;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: like chinese ejen016 [6k\]: komi 8 Blockdude [3k\]: nz rules is katori15 [5k\]: d15 ] ;B[de]C[GaretJax [6k\]: so I dont' know how it could cause jigo ] ;W[df] ;B[ml]C[Blockdude [3k\]: you get to choose where to put ur handicap ] ;W[ps]C[Blockdude [3k\]: and you can suicide groups ] ;B[qs]C[ejen016 [6k\]: and fill the dame if i was not mistaken ] ;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: yep Blockdude [3k\]: oh yeah ] ;B[ad]C[Blockdude [3k\]: nz counts dame GaretJax [6k\]: I thought you can suicide in ing too? ] ;W[be] ;B[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: basically scoring is stones and territory ] ;W[fb] ;B[eb] ;W[nl] ;B[dr] ;W[cr] ;B[ml] ;W[fa] ;B[ea]C[GaretJax [6k\]: how woudl jigo get caused? ] ;W[nl]C[ejen016 [6k\]: like if we play q1 ?? ] ;B[cs] ;W[bs]C[ejen016 [6k\]: suicide? ] ;B[ml]C[GaretJax [6k\]: ejen, yes Over9k [5k\]: no katori15 [5k\]: j19 ] ;W[ia] ;B[ga]C[GaretJax [6k\]: but it's useful if you can make dead shape inside ] ;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: yea Over9k [5k\]: but only as a ko threat thaguy56 [6k\]: b17 Over9k [5k\]: you can't play q1 copacetik [1k\]: I always thought the suicide rule was no good Johnny5 [7k\]: why would you want to get jigo anyway? GaretJax [6k\]: better'n losing Over9k [5k\]: suicide gives you ko threat Blockdude [3k\]: cuz its cool >.> Capsule [3d\]: white wins by a little bit katori15 [5k\]: b17 good eye Capsule [3d\]: maybe 3 points setake [10k\]: is this ko even big? slinky [-\]: yup setake [10k\]: why? joelw [12k\]: it's a close game Capsule [3d\]: ko doesn't determine the game. Blockdude [3k\]: at this close game it is very big slinky [-\]: its close enough for it :3 setake [10k\]: because its so close? slinky [-\]: yes! Capsule [3d\]: W+2-3 ] ;B[ca]C[azaman [2k\]: I thought b was up by a couple.... setake [10k\]: yeah but a ko is only worth 1 point no? joelw [12k\]: SE thinks b is up by 7 usgo14 [-\]: dont trust score estimate ] ;W[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: 1.5 ejen016 [6k\]: no 0.5 usgo14 [-\]: when it uses nz rules its usually off setake [10k\]: cause you get sente? ] ;B[mo]C[azaman [2k\]: se is not even worth looking at (exept for amusement) setake [10k\]: why n5? ] ;W[lo] ;B[aa]C[copacetik [1k\]: it is very amusing sometimes Johnny5 [7k\]: SE = Simply Entertainment katori15 [5k\]: Ing counts stones HamatoYosh [-\]: dame matters in Ing rules setake [10k\]: oh setake [10k\]: weird ] ;W[me]C[NeverAtari [4k?\]: not really Over9k [5k\]: it's like chinese rules ] ;B[em]C[setake [10k\]: wow this is some weird playing setake [10k\]: so the more stones you have the better? NeverAtari [4k?\]: senseis library Over9k [5k\]: and the more territory ejen016 [6k\]: so hows the result?? HamatoYosh [-\]: the game is played the same as japanese rules, basically, but you just fill in the dame at the end cloudy [4d\]: it is not weird at all, just different perspects usgo14 [-\]: counting now setake [10k\]: so how does it count points? katori15 [5k\]: counting stone splits the board even so B+W=361 Panda123 [4k\]: r these pro dan's? Capsule [3d\]: no. Panda123 [4k\]: ty azaman [2k\]: I see w 80 b 78 katori15 [5k\]: waaahhaa pro's are dan for the most part cloudy [4d\]: pro dan's will be 7p, 6p vs 7d, 6d here setake [10k\]: oh i get the score... whover has more stones on the board wins? cause they ate the most? Over9k [5k\]: they have to fill int he territorry too ejen016 [6k\]: b won by agehama usgo14 [-\]: W won ejen016 [6k\]: by how? usgo14 [-\]: by 3 katori15 [5k\]: wow Blockdude [3k\]: so all higher ranks won today azaman [2k\]: hmm wonder what I fogot to count ])