Anybody following DHS purchases? [Archive] - Glock Talk


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09-11-2012, 00:07
I wish there was a forum for this question, but this seems to be the best one. I'm sure you've heard of teh DHS ammo purchases, but the news gets more bizarre every day. First I heard they ordered 450 million rds of HST .40. I kept searching, and found of copy of the Govt solicitation -- 91 pages long, all ammo purchases. Smarter people than me have done homework and it seems in total, they've ordered 2 billion rds since 2009. Most of the handgun calibers are hollowpoint, whichare illegal in warfare under the Geneva Convention (so, illegal outside our borders). The caliber selections are interestign too -- .223, .308 (sniper, M60), two kinds of 12 ga buck (#4 and #00), .357 SiG, .45 ACP, 9mm (of course) and 7.62x39! WTF,O? No agency IO know of uses AKs... but Nato and UN troops do.

The contract is real, and it's not only real, they were in a hurry, and cited an "...urgent need..." so they sole-sourced it to Federal (ATK) and skipped the bidding and trial process. They were in that much of a hurry. The question is... why.

09-11-2012, 00:16
OMG. Another DHS thread.

Since you are so good at research, please go and find where in the Geneva Convention it says what you say it does.

While you are at it, find the aprox number of LEOs under the DHS umbrella.

09-11-2012, 03:14
People are making way to much out of this. A dept as large as DHS is going to employ a massive number of LEO's that between training and qualifications are going to go through a ton of ammo. Geneva didn't ban hollow points. It was another one and if memory serves we didn't even sign the one that bans hollow points in warfare, we just abide for political reasons.

09-11-2012, 04:25
The reason Federal got the contract is because only Federal makes the HST bullets (duh).
It's easier to give the contract to Federal because they're already producing all the rifle calibers too.

Geneva Convention? It's the Hague Accords of 1899 that prohibits expanding "dum-dum" bullets from use during combat amongst uniformed armies of recognized nations. JHP or "expanding" ammo is not necessarily prohibited outside the U.S. Many federal LEO's are allowed to use such expanding ammo along with the U.S. SpecOps teams when used against terrorists and non-uniformed combatants. What do you think the heavy 9mm 147JHP subsonics were developed for? It was designed for our Navy SpecOps for use in their suppressed subguns.

Don't let your paranoia get the best of you.

09-11-2012, 08:27
I've read a lot about these DHS purchases but I don't recall seeing where the contract specified an "urgent" need though I do know it provides a multi-year option (doesn't sound too "urgent" to me). Do you have a link to proof of that? Or is this info coming from the same places that claim that Obama's birth certificate says "African-American" on it?

09-11-2012, 08:50

09-11-2012, 09:27
That's not much in the way of ammunition when you consider its intended use, including training over the next 5 years, and the number of armed employees under that organizational umbrella.

They ought to be buying more. Budgets are tight, though.

The sky isn't falling. Really.

09-11-2012, 12:26
You guys are doing all of his assigned homework for him :\

09-11-2012, 14:43
Sometimes the "urgent" need isn't because of the need for the item to be purchased but instead, the need for the money to be spent. It may sound ridiculous but if you're allotted a budget and it is not used by the end of a quarter, fiscal or calender year it may look as if you are over budgeted. Your budget may then be reevaluated and you could loose that amount per quarter, fiscal or whatever... that amount is then reallocated to another element.

This is not necessarily the case but it does happen within government agencies.

09-12-2012, 06:29
The Geneva convention does not cover war against terrorists. It only covers declared war and enemies that follow rules. Oh wait, there are no rules in war. If anyone believes rules are actually followed in war then they should stop drinking the news fed koolaide.

09-13-2012, 20:57
Just what the heck is DHS anyway?

09-13-2012, 21:02
Just what the heck is DHS anyway?
Department of Homeland Security

09-15-2012, 11:14
Department of Homeland Security

Thank you! :cool: