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Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:10 | 363776 Abundance
Abundance's picture

Don't let your love ones be caught off guard by the collaspe.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:15 | 363791 rich_maverick
rich_maverick's picture

Been warning folks since February that the rally's days are numbered and that we will revisit the old lows.  Many are confused why my message is so different from all their Financial Advisors...  Unfortunately, many are sticking with the advice of others because they prefer the "hope" option over my negativity.  I tell them they will have opportunities to get back in much lower.  But, like all those suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, they prefer to be part of the "abused" class.



Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:30 | 363855 Bad Lieutenant
Bad Lieutenant's picture

Well said.  I gave up trying to convince friends as they are dug just too far into the mainstream brainwashing, and I've become tired of being regarded as the crazy finance guy. Frankly, it's exhausting to push against the deluge of mainstream drivel these people are exposed to every single day.

These days, given that the US people have had a SOLID year to push their representatives for meaningful financial reform and haven't done so, I no longer have any sympathy for most Americans.  I used to harbor a deep hate towards the politicians and special interests for turning America into the sinking ship it has become, but now I have a larger hate towards the people that know who's on Dancing With The Stars but can't simply describe how a FRN is created into existence.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:39 | 363902 Postal
Postal's picture

"Uh... what's a FRN?"


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:40 | 364062 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Um, in all fairness, theres nothing wrong with not knowing a financial acronym.

In truth, the North American masses prefer watching reality tv, because they are sure their monies are safe with whatever financial advisor they employ. Here is where the irony comes in, when they find out their advisor has about as much knowledge about global finances as they do. And thats not very much.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:46 | 364077 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Hopefully, we are witnessing the death of "expertise" in this bucket shop of a country....Too many, for too long, have assumed the "experts" or our "leaderers" were TCB...

What's the quote about the price of Freedom again?

Eternal vigilance?

Sounds about right doesn't it


Fri, 05/21/2010 - 06:40 | 365252 anony
anony's picture

Blood is the utimate and only really effective price to pay for freedom, it seems.

Although voters in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania (partly), W.Virginia, and some other states have awoken to the malice of Disastrous Incumbency and have cast their vote in the direction of reformers to give representation another chance.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:47 | 363932 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Well said. Even though a year ago would have still probably been too late to turn this rig around, but jeez, come on, people! At least put on your inflatable life vests and assume the crash position!

No? *shrug* whatever.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:52 | 363946 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Our reps quit listening to us a long time ago. Thats what next November was going to be about. Doesn't look like we will make it to November.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:11 | 364178 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

At least my reps don't listen.

I wrote them about cap and trade, health reform, the bail outs, the audit the fed bill.  All I got was a reply

dear constituent

(insert party ideology with no thought or specifics here.  we know better than you so shut up and take it)

thanks for writing.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:34 | 364402 Kali
Kali's picture


Wed, 11/10/2010 - 00:34 | 714934 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

You got responses?

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:02 | 364334 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"how a FRN is created into existence."

I Know! I Know!!
Bernank-ster shits it out of thin flatulence...
I mean thin air...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:11 | 364351 Sisyphus
Sisyphus's picture

That's funny right there; I don't care who you are!

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:17 | 364491 Fascist Dictator
Fascist Dictator's picture

hehehe...thanks, I needed that...

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:01 | 365064 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the pigs go willingly to slaughter...  i tell people at work what to expect and they all think they got it figured out... 

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 13:54 | 1208381 william.smith61
william.smith61's picture

A part of me thinks it's funny. A part of me thinks it's tragic. And a part of me gets really angry about this.The markets USED to be a place, where you could count on, say, AMD being downgraded would lead to a 5% drop in stock value. Ignition Distributor

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:33 | 363883 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

You've done all you can...  your kindness may not be recognized and appreciated but it is there nonetheless...  

Ths ostrich mentality is plaguing society...  you know, the people who won't even open their 401k statements or credit card bills out of fear.  Well, if this crash does one thing positive, it will be to terminate that way of thinking once and for all.  We will all become stronger in the end.  But a whole lot of pain lies ahead for those who are not ready.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:38 | 363901 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Complete and utter lawlessness on all levels.

The middle simply will not hold.

Started re-reading my dog-eared copy of Patriots again a few days ago.

I'd advise all in the know to do the same.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:28 | 364019 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Check out One Second After as well.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:45 | 364074 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Both books are very good.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:28 | 364222 TomGa
TomGa's picture

"Cut to size, file to fit, paint to match."

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:15 | 363792 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

 you can lead a horse to water..

 Ive been warning them for months, and I am the crazy one..


 BUT, FOR IMMEDIATE family, sometimes you have to take the wheel for them..Get a little extra, of whatever it is, just for them..

 Everybody stay smart,safe, and head on a swivel..

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:30 | 364514 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Having food to share with neighbors keeps your immediate vicinity rational. You do not want hungry people around you.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 03:20 | 365154 KTV Escort
KTV Escort's picture

Nice thought, but food runs out quickly... then they come back, this time with family and friends, expecting more. Encourage your neighbors to convert their lawns into gardens now. If you live in the city, look into relocating if you can. Desperate people do bad things. Gold gets the press around here, but a big garden might be your best investment.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:20 | 363821 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Agreed, though got all my friends OUT about three months ago in full. Everyone yanked 401k, yanked all stocks/bonds/etc. Capitol controls are now in play within the USA and you can kiss your Money Market goodby as they can lock you out of liquidation on a whim.

It is still not too late folks, though you are a bit late to their game of privatizing profits to GS/JPM/etc and socializing losses to the sheeple.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:24 | 363841 What a mess_man
What a mess_man's picture

And how exactly does one "yank" a 401K? 

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:28 | 363860 RobD
RobD's picture

If you don't work at the company that you had the 401K with then you can just ask for a check and pay the 10% extra tax. If you are still working then you can take a loan on half of the balance and pay it back with interest.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:44 | 363924 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Be careful on this.  The 10% is a penalty.  Depending upon the size of the 401K and your income level, yanking can push you into a higher tax bracket.  I wanted to yank my IRA's but total penalty and taxes would have cost me 50% of my retirement savings.  I'm still going to yank part of it though.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:00 | 363974 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can take a loan against it.  This is much easier, and doesn't have a tax penalty.

You can still only get ~50% of your money, but at least the government won't have the other 50%.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:06 | 364160 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The loan is limited by law to a max of $50k and it must be paid back over no longer than 5 years. Most companies make you set up a payroll deduction plan to pay it back or they don't give you the loan. Read your 401(k) plan documents, called the summary plan document. It will tell you everything you need to know.


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:33 | 364521 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Yup - all true, but imo worth it to establish an initial postion in physical PMs if you have not already done so. I am not an advisor, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 23:22 | 364892 Dr o love
Dr o love's picture

A bigger problem with the 401K loan is that you have to repay it with after-tax dollars.  Those dollars will get taxed again when you withdraw them from your IRA.  Thus, you are taxed twice on money you borrow from your IRA.  A very bad deal IMO.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:07 | 365069 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you are cursing pennies on the dollar considering the alternative... the loan is VERY solid move.  look t the big picture on how you are taking chips out of the casino and using them in PM's or paying high interest debt, or stockpiling glocks or whatever

also you can usually put your 401k into a cash type fund..  not great but usually a better play when the rest is crumbling and you can't that part of the 401k out...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:25 | 364008 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

So you're gonna wait when tax rates climb back to the highs in the years following the Great Depression? 

income tax rates are at all time lows right now. Those with half a brain will get out now while they still can...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:48 | 363933 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

Lucky you! I have bled 60% penalty on my pension funds to get it out, and even that was only possible, because I have expatriated my sorry bottom.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:56 | 363962 optimator
optimator's picture

You only pay that penalty if you keep it out longer that 60 days.  You've got the 60 to move it.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:30 | 363873 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I convinced my board to fire me so that I could liquidate my 401K and the rehire me after that was completed (hire/liquidate/fire all transpired same day).  This was around May/June 2008. 

Good luck with convincing your employer to do that by the way.

As far as loved ones are concerned, I warned, I screamed, I yelled, and was dismissed as a pot-smoking lunatic (neither being the case as far as I was concerned).  Part of me realizes that some need to have the proverbial financial shit kicked out of them before they open their eyes to the home of the thief and land of the slave.  With pain comes suffering.  With suffering comes questions.  With questions come the truth. 

All I know is that I do what I love and do what is true and the universe will conspire with those that do.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:51 | 363944 Scarecrow
Scarecrow's picture

There's a lot of pot heads that are way smarter than the idiot talking heads on CNBC.


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:55 | 363955 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I can neither admit nor deny as it depends on what the definition of head is. 

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:56 | 363956 merehuman
merehuman's picture

for sure dont bogart.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 05:20 | 1135932 jamesk
jamesk's picture

There is apparently a lot to know about this. I think you made various good points in features also. haier air conditioner | ge air conditioners | payne air conditioners

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:35 | 364043 ThreeTrees
ThreeTrees's picture

*points at self*

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:31 | 364234 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I hate drugs. The most precious thing anyone has or does is think. The best way to distort and abuse peoples thinking privelages are though lies and drugs.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:24 | 364380 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

I disagree. Sometimes drugs are what allow people to see through the lies, and change their perception. Abuse is another thing all together.

 "Think for yourself. Question authority." - Timothy Leary

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:29 | 364388 juangrande
juangrande's picture

the rational mind is a tool like any other tool. if you don't let it rest, perform maintenance, and nurture it, it will malfunction. we are in this mess because of collective overthinking.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:36 | 364408 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

@Hephasteus, ever heard of Bill Hicks?

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 03:17 | 367364 CIABS
CIABS's picture

We'd heard of him.  Too bad about that fast-acting cancer, sort of like what Jack Ruby had.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:35 | 364527 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Weed is not a drug..It is a plant..However, Xanax and Prozac are drugs.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 21:35 | 364671 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm not dissing you all or anything but I'm highly empathic and when I get around drug users it just PISSES ME OFF TO NO END. I can tell casual users who do the RIGHT THING and don't go out in public when they are baked or possess sufficient mental facualties that weed doesn't degrade them down drooling stupidity. But the long term always using pot smokers are fucked in the head. They think they are 20 times more profound and focused than they are. Most of what comes out is dumb. It's just annoying for me because I get hit with the pot fog when I interact with them too much.

Now if you're on crystal meth do not be around me. Your life is in danger. I will kill you just to shut down the energy If I can't get away from you fast enough. I'm a libertarian so smoke up but don't expect to have long chats with me if you're always going to be stoned. And no I don't really care about any sort of problems that arise as a result of using it. I don't want to help. In any way. No I don't have to find some way to get along with you or "work" things out. No I don't want you to feel bad about smoking pot. Sorry you died of pancreatic cancer Barry. I didn't like being your friend cause you used too damn many drugs. Don't look me up next lifetime. Same for all the other drugged out people I got stuck with this life. Go away. Stay away. Look me up when you hate drugs as much as me. I will strive and work towards as little sympathy as possible for anyone using and for sure selling drugs.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 23:04 | 364860 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I feel you. 100%.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 00:05 | 364960 Rick64
Rick64's picture

How do you view aclohol? Just curious.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:06 | 365068 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Alchahol doesn't bother me. I don't act any different drunk than I act sober and I'm not surprised by people who act radically different drunk than sober because it's really not anything I don't "see" anyway. But my mom was completely different. She didn't like people who are drunk. It's just the abuse regiment. She was obviously abused by a drunk at some point in her evolvement. My damage is mostly centered around gang violence and mayhem issues. There's a tie in to drugs with that because drug users take so much crap from people that they instinctively try to peer pressure everyone into being just like them to relieve the psychological stresses associated with it all. It's like dealing with homosexual. I'm not gay but they do not bother me at all. But the problem is they pick up on the acceptance and well sex is the ultimate "act" of acceptance so they always go too far with it. But drug users usually end up in a pattern of a ring of "friends" who try to use each other for drugs in some fashion or another. Those rings are not self sufficient in any way and need outside influence. But drugs are so powerful and any situation really only has three pathways. Self sufficiency removal of the stressor. Conversion, alchemical change of behavior pattern or destruction of any sort of opposing behavior forces. IE run from it, change it, kill it. You can't change drug usage it's so devestating to people that it requires forces that are stupidly stressing to achieve cathartic releases. Until you come to me and ask for my help getting rid of your drug dealers body I'm just not going to take you serious. The fact that they are even here I just can't imagine. The egyptians had a plant that was a perfect natural from of birth control. They extincted it harvesting it till it no longer existed. But we can't get rid of freaking cocaine plants and opiates? Maybe because the manipulative bastards who use them on everyone are the powers that be. Pot is fine in it's natural form but this stuff we have today is nothing like natural pot. It's THC levels have been line bread to rediculous freaking levels. It doesn't have to be a gateway drug. It's moving steadily towards being plenty damaging on it's own. Give it 20 more years it'll make heroine look like a slurpy.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:10 | 365071 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

DMT will set you free

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:29 | 365084 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 I agree with you except for pot. Alcohol is very destructive as much so as many drugs. The same characteristics you apply to drug users can apply to alcoholics. I see smoking pot on occasion is the same as having a couple of drinks. Abuse is always the problem, but pot abuse usually results in harmless behaviour.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 17:49 | 366761 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'd like to agree with ya there. Pot casues traffic accidents as it messes up depth perception. It does cause groups of people using each other for drugs. I look at it from chakra persepctives. Alchahol shuts down your 3rd eye and makes it harder for you to see the truth. Pot shuts down crown chakra and makes it harder for you to focus information.  Your discernment and sword of discrimination should monitor your crown chakra and keep you from being to open to every influence but some people are too open and pot does actually help them. So it's not a cut and dried thing. Sometimes it's good sometimes its bad.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 20:29 | 366999 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Oh, I can see you have absolutely no idea about drugs and completely brainwashed by the mainstream thinking. I even thought of googling bits of what you wrote, I am sure I will find hundreds of things arguing in that line. However, facts are:

1. Alcohol is many more times dangerous than pot. The only reason that makes people believe it is less dangerous is because it is the socially accepted drug of the modern society. Would your views be the same if alcohol was illegal as well, and you were bombarded with news like 'drunk driver kills old man' 'drunk teens create chaos on the streets' 'drunk football fans stab each other' etc..?

2.Noone in the world behaves the same when they drink alcohol, what would be the purpose of it otherwise? (If you claim you do, double-triple the amount you drink on a normal night out and see again) It is clinically proven to trigger violence in human beings (Why do you think hooligans drink and not smoke before football -soccer I mean if you are American- games? It is much more poisonous than pot (particularly if you smoke pot in a vaporizer, as cancer patients do), much easier to get addicted and much more difficult to quit once addiction develops (THC has very low physical addictiveness). Try to compare potheads with alcoholics if you want to make a proper comparison, which one would you like to spend a night in the same house if you had a choice? Just like everyone that drinks alcohol is not an alcoholic, everyone that smokes pot is not necessarily a pothead. And unlike what the majority thinks, withdrawal from pot is much much milder than alcohol (let alone those stupid antidepressants), even heavy users can return to feeling entirely OK in a matter of few weeks. 

3. A very small minority of pot smokers develop paranoid behaviour (these are the 0.01% that always appear on TV to show how bad pot is) 

4. Pot does not turn people dumb. I have personal friends with very successful academic, business and happy personal lives who occasionally-frequently smoke.

5. What do you think about Xanax and Prozac users? Or other chemical prescribed anti-depressant, anti-anxiety pills, sleeping pills users? I guess you don't hate them as enthusiastically as you hate potheads. Am I right? I'm sure you have many friends on those stupid pills and you probably view them as having some psychological problems and getting help. Let me tell you one thing then: For some pot smokers, weed serves the same purpose. And believe me, it is much cleaner, more natural, and more relaxing than any of the above. 

6. Pot-smokers need to deal with gangsters because purchasing weed is illegal. You can choose your weed from a catalogue, order an espresso and have a nice chat with your friend smoking a spliff next to the beautiful canals in Amsterdam. Civilized. Knew that?

I think you should be more modest and avoid making strong statements when you are talking about subjects you have little knowledge about. Especially if your knowledge is derived from CNN-ABC-Wikipeida triangle.

And by the way, I prefer to see a bunch of stoned potheads on the streets rather than a bunch of drunk. It will surely be safer and more peaceful..

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 15:36 | 367873 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

See that's the biggest problem with pot right there. First off my experience is first hand. You can't argue facts and realities about pot. You will be subjected to infinite emotional and intellectual distortions. Becasue they simply want to do it and not be supbjected to pressure to stop no matter how damaging it is to them.

Pot is the ultimate mental fake out. It activates the pineal gland just enough to completely fuck up neptune. It makes the persons internalized self only ideology exactly mimic a lage group conciousness connected thought process because the person believes the crown chakra is open at precisely the times when it as closed as tight as a fucking drum. Withdrawal from pot is severe. It's not so heavily in the biological component but it's emotionally and intellectually severe because the distortion gets so strong that they can't reconcile it.


And that's the crux of it. Pot users think they have nice chats. But the person who doesn't smoke pot wants them to shut up because everything coming out is stupid, divorced from reality and distorted. But the pot smoker has a nice chat. So he then attempts to peer pressure the person into smoking the pot because it's the only transformation vehicle capable of taking the "this is an exchange of stupidity turn it offffff!!" into a this was a nice chat and deep and meaninful. Now that is a severe boundry layer right there and it just bends chiron in gemini over a chair and butt fucks it endlessly. Because any problems the person has with acceptance of ideas or jealousy concerning the intellect or ability to reason or ability to influence and get your way walks into the room in form of a giant elephant.

This is not a generalized brain washed view point it's personal with me and very personal because I'm not just ok at sharing intellects with people. I'm amazing at it. Given enough of a empathic connection and mental planet connections between another person. I can co-exist our intellects into a unified whole. Seek out any stressors of understanding and get another person to assist me in understanding something as well as assist them and it happens at such a deep level that there is no boundry layer between self and other. This is not a generalized power. I can't do this with you at all right now. I have no idea if you were stoned when you wrote this or not. It's supposed to follow the rules of astrology and time space. IE short wavelength mercury energy only takes up a field strenght of about 6 feet so you have to be within that field to process it. Long wavelength neptune energy works over the entire planet. When I say supposed to work what I mean is that it FUCKING doesn't work right. Times and people I'm not supposed to be mentally connected to or emotionally connected to I SUDDENLY AM. Times when I am supposed to be I'M NOT. Which makes the mechanics of this world a LIE. Which makes me look for the people and things that are fucking it up and making it work WRONG.

Let me explain this to you further. Thought energy is lke a gaseous air. Emotional energy is nothing more than that gaseous air compressed into a liquified form. But there are some thoughts that will not follow the phase change behavior. Like CO2 it doesn't have a liquid stage. It goes directly from a solid to a gas. All the cheats that allow the world to be fucked up like it is occur because of these thought chemistry anomolous substances. I'm going to get chemical bitch on some people asses about this until they confess exactly what the fuck they are doing because they really don't have to explain it to me any more. There's going to be "light workers" screaming stop beating me it hurts so bad. Do you really have to use a shovel on my balls. Please it hurts.

So that being said. I've drunk "HEAVY" pot smoker water. It's not clean clear crisp easy integration energy. It's nasty smelly bong water. You're being fed this shit because you ARE geniouses. You ARE intelligent and the universe just won't fucking tolerate that. So they make you FAKE it, make you annoying and stupid so people will tell you how annoying and stupid you are being, and hurt you and damage your ability to be exactly what you are meant to be. So put the fucking pot down and grab a shovel. You need to work on "The clanging of the light workers balls" composition.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:36 | 364046 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

You can do it the slow, cheaper way:  Say you are unemployed, paying a mortgage and have say $50k in deductible expenses.  You can roll a portion of your 401k into a Roth 401k, with said rolled amount becoming taxable income.  You can use tax prep software late in that year to determine how much you can convert to Roth while avoiding writing a check to IRS.  The amount rolled into the Roth can, after 5 years, be pulled out at any time w/o any penalty.  Voila - you avoid wasting deductions, you avoid taxes, and in 5 years the money is penalty-free.

I am not a tax attorney, nor did I stay at Holiday Inn Express last night.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:14 | 364359 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I always caution people doing a Roth conversion that it could be a good idea, but remember that you are paying tax when you do the conversion and relying on a promise from the Feds that they won't change the rules and tax you again later.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 23:21 | 364888 Sespian
Sespian's picture

research "self-directed 401(k)".  I took complete control of my 401(k) fund with the initial help of an attorney and then legally reimbursed myself for attorney fees out of my new fund.  It wasn't that hard or expensive. $5k and you control your funds with no penalties. annual Tax filing is required if fund is over $250k.  But don't take my advice.  Research it and call an attorney.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:32 | 363881 mjv
mjv's picture

It's too late. I've been banging on my folks to get defensive, but they are too busy with various BS to worry about their finances.

I'm not looking forward to their economic demise and what it implies for the future utilization of my basement.

I'm sure that they will have an easy time off-loading their home outside of Detroit...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:57 | 363964 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

I can't hardly even convince the wife, never mind my other loved ones.

Cashed out a bunch of stocks at the open yesterday. Thanks ZH and company for the heads up!

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:02 | 363983 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

Speaking of being off guard, does anyone have any information regarding the number of shorts still out on various currencies? I was just realizing that this squeeze could just be getting started. Same thing happened with the dollar squeeze back in 2008 and it almost broke the world.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:04 | 363987 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

If you are tired of arguing and trying to convince them, just send 'em this, like I did:

At least it won't weigh on you that you didn't try to warn them.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:38 | 364055 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Thank you for that piece Gordon.  I sent it to several I care about, that I haven't given up on.  My guess is all but one never read it.  BUT one did, and thanked me.  Thus.... Kudos Gordon, you maybe saved one more household.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 23:07 | 364869 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


Just freaking do it, people. Send it and take solace in knowing that you really did try to warn them. No matter how sucked in they are. Cleanse yourself of any guilt and die knowing that you sent them every, single, damn bit of evidence you could. Just do it. Thank yourself for having found ZH and the community of truth.

GG, you are the man.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:23 | 364215 deadparrot
deadparrot's picture

I warned all my friends to get out of the market 3-4 weeks ago. None of them have have given me feedback, so I can only assume they ignored my advice and are kicking themselves. Funny thing about advising people to sell... it is pretty much a lose/lose situation. Most people ignore you and start calling you nutjob behind your back. Then, after they see their portfolio's balance dwindle away, they hate you for not giving them more "convincing" data. It's the whole "hatred of shorts" phenomenon. People don't mind if you are making more money than they are if they are also making money, but when you are raking it in while they are losing their shirt, they curse you.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:04 | 364468 doublethink
doublethink's picture


Don't let your loved ones be caught off guard...


by the oil "spill." 104,000 barrels per day.


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 23:00 | 364850 Jimmy Joe
Jimmy Joe's picture


Instead of just talking and writing about the inevitable end of things that is coming why dont we try to do something about it.

For example, lets assume that things are going to get substancially worse than they are now why not commit our time or a portion of our time and energies towards doing the following:

1. Set up a 24 hr radio station that will inform people of what they can do to get help, where they can go, if we have something then maybe we can help them.

2. Similar for a website.

3. Set up another website that will chronicle exactly what happened and why and who is to blame.

4. My idea basically is to provide a place where people can go to get the truth and some help if needed.

Lets fight it not just stand by and watch it devour us.

One think that is very likely and will make me sick is the fact that the politicians who are now in charge and are mostly responsible for this mess are also going to be in charge after this is all over unless we make some effort to stop it.



Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:12 | 365072 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the zombies will eat you..  duck and run

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 06:53 | 365264 French Frog
French Frog's picture

As a newbie in here (posting-wise) but long term reader, would the following scenario for today make sense, if one believes that this is a manipulated market (S&P)?

1. taking out the recent low, not by much, but just enough to get even more people to short (as the shorts now have the upper hand, or maybe they have just been made to believe it)

2. massive rally to shake out the weaker shorts and finish the week with a half decent looking candle (not too bearish) which would give some comfort to both sides.

3. next week and the following weeks, the market rallies hard and we make new highs (1225+) to again get in a position where shorting is the guaranteed losing trade.

4. then when everyone and their aunty are bullish again, we have the proper crash.

Does anyone see this as a possibility, or has the table turned so much by now that the worldwide selling forces are too big even for a govt/printing press/allied banks to hold it up? 

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:12 | 363779 Lighty
Lighty's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:16 | 363794 Dburn
Dburn's picture


FAZ Yeaaahhhhh


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:18 | 364368 Arthur Two Shed...
Arthur Two Sheds Jackson's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:12 | 363781 Mongo
Mongo's picture

On a long enough timeline

the survival rate for

everyone drops to zero

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:14 | 363784 cbaba
cbaba's picture

Everybody is extremely nervous, its going to be another ugly day tomorrow.


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363807 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Is that you Jason?

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:24 | 363842 cbaba
cbaba's picture

no, sorry.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:24 | 363846 cbaba
cbaba's picture

no, sorry.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:25 | 364507 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Geithner = prison time.


Keep spreading the message......

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:20 | 363822 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Depends. If it's just covering to see if Germany is going to open up the whole can of crazy or not. If they do ugly is monday. Because austerity is a great idea until it's revolted against.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:21 | 363828 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:14 | 363787 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

Well, it was only natural after the squeezes in the euro and yen. Plus people were flooding into the CHF. I don't think this was really all that unexpected. This was just some massive short covering in three major international currencies.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:17 | 363801 Boop
Boop's picture

Happens every day. Not to worry.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:19 | 363817 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

No no no, it don't. But if you look at the international heat map you can see that there was nowhere to hide in equities. So you can see what drove the currency spikes today and vice versa. I'm not saying this is positive at all, so please resume the orgy of the bears.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:24 | 363840 Boop
Boop's picture

I was being sarcastic... Perhaps should have used <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:47 | 364086 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:34 | 363887 Nigaz
Nigaz's picture

Whiz, that's even funnier than Leo's comments!

You have the deadpan humor down.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:14 | 363789 docj
docj's picture

Dr. Benlove - riding the US Dollar into oblivion.


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:15 | 363790 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Seems like VL shaped "recovery".

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:24 | 363845 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

In a fit of prescience, in 1955 Dr. Suess foresaw that the ordinary alphabet would not suffice during the final meltdown of the Great Fiat Experiment.  He wrote 'On Beyond Zebra' to prepare us for moving 'off the map' and in so doing gave us more letters for market analogies.

I believe this is a Nuh-shaped recovery.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:28 | 363859 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Backwards "N" ?

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:34 | 363886 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Agreed, backward N just like in the 30's.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:43 | 364069 JJP
JJP's picture

could also be a drunk z

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:50 | 363941 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

You know, now that i look at my keyboard we can pretty much get there with M.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:18 | 363995 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Didn't you hear?  Fat finger type a 'B' instead of an 'M'.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:18 | 364196 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture


no unicode support killed my witty comment :(

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:16 | 363793 Hughe Crapper
Hughe Crapper's picture

Don't worry fooks, just sell if you can't short it.

Step out and relaxxx.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:16 | 363796 lilimarlene1
lilimarlene1's picture

I kinda remember how I came here, blog hopping I guess, like a toad skipping lily pads.

I never had watched Fight Club, and then I did. This window into a world I don't really know has me frozen. I can't move. I keep watching. I am learning, too.

Thank you.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:28 | 363861 AllYourBaseAreB...
AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs's picture

It's kinda like a crime scene.


In many ways.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:36 | 363892 bingaling
bingaling's picture

LMAO +100

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:48 | 363937 Paladin en passant
Paladin en passant's picture

Fight Club, CSI

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:31 | 364031 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Underwear inside out.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:51 | 363929 Major Key Tonality
Major Key Tonality's picture

Yes! Thank you ZH! Tyler, you and the rest of the ZH crew have helped so many make some sense out of this madness. I probably only understand 10% of what you guys talk about but I learn more every day.
I truly believe that we are living through one of human history's fundamental changes. I am fascinated, scared, excited, and saddened by it all. When it all finally unravels there will be nowhere to run but at least I'll have some idea what caused it all. God Bless.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363798 Ataraxia
Ataraxia's picture

This is like the fall of '08... Except all of the central banks have already shot their loads. Look at the VIX. It hasn't been this high for over a year, and all commodities are being sold off. Even with gigantic currency intervention today, oil and gold were still trading down! The amount of leverage in the system is so much higher than we saw two years ago, it should get interesting pretty quickly. Are we approaching the summer of our discontent? 

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:22 | 363831 mikla
mikla's picture

+1, Great comment.

Further, don't under-estimate how difficult it is to riot in the middle of winter.

Oh, wait: We're rolling into summer. (That's not a joke.)

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:27 | 363854 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


actually, gold was hammered down intentionally. don't kid yourself. they don't have the gold to meet delivery demands next week. options expire monday. they took out all the calls today.

now the trick is -- what's really gonna cause the printing presses to

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:57 | 364124 pak
pak's picture

Similar but not same. To me, at least.

In commodities, not everything is being sold. Corn is up for the day, softs are down but only marginally.

It's not nice, but the ongoing liquidation of so-called "risk assets" looks rather orderly so far.

Don't write off the Central Banks; the presses are on. Things will be getting better from here on. In
nominal terms, at least.))

Nobody will talk about "tightening" now. It's all playing out oh-so-well.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:23 | 364213 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

remember after 2008 we had hopes of a recovery from a great recession...when it happens twice and there is no other country doing better (Europe or China helping US multinationals), nothing left for CBers to do, no more bailouts....hope is extinguished...its like being trapped on a island but with a boat you can repair, every day you patch it, you have hope, a goal..and then one night the boat floats away....what do you do when you wake up the next morning and see its gone?

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:28 | 365086 Assetman
Assetman's picture

The Federal Reserve has not used all of their bullets.  But they can't monetize with the intention of propping up asset values.  It's a lost cause.  And the strategy of "confidence building" through propping up various risk markets can be put to be as an utter failure.

It's the debt, stupid.  That's the message that needs to be hammered on this Administration and on the Federal Reserve.  There is still way too much debt, and Americans should be pissed that our US government was willing to take on the debt to save a handful of elitists.

Consumers have been reducing debt, despite the govenement's attempts to circumvent that process.  The finanical system needs much more deleveraging... and it must come in waves.  Government can't continue to run 10% GDP deficits and openly accept bad debts-- those debts must be run through the financial system.

It's either now, or things get much worse in the future.  QE should be used as an emegency release valve, not as a stealth bailout vehicle. 

Deflation. Then hyperinflation. Get ready for it.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:17 | 363800 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

What a gloooorious feeeeeeling, I'm (OOOOOF!) happy again.......

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:17 | 363802 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363804 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture


They will close the exchanges and the banks if they have to. They are waging war against the market, and have no intention of losing this game.

Honestly, I have no idea where they think they are going with this. On either end of the game -- at either total victory over market dynamics, or total failure -- lurks the destruction of capital markets and the sucking death spiral that will vaporize 200 years of economic growth.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:27 | 363856 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

For want of a haircut, the world was lost.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:31 | 363878 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

For want of the price of tea and a slice...

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:41 | 363911 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

I am afraid too. Although this is the kind of action, that I have been expecting since August last year - now that it appears to be here - I am very uneasy about how it will play out. 

BTW, Your cat paragraph from the other day was sheer poetry.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:03 | 364146 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Poetry for the damned at the very edge of the world.

But thank you.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:42 | 364065 ThreeTrees
ThreeTrees's picture

Not aaalll 200 years of it.  Well, in nominal terms it's vaporized but physical capital will stick around which is fortunate because new capital formation is gonna take a serious kick in the nuts.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:05 | 364155 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Oh look everyone! I found an optimist!

Just kidding. You are probably right. And there are other kinds of capital, like working knowledge and understanding of nature, that we discount today (while all our basic needs are met) but will value far more than mere goods, if things do go very badly.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:43 | 365101 Assetman
Assetman's picture

They can close anything they want-- the markets will win the war over time.  Either that, or we have no viable form of effective capital markets.

The Fed won't need to push rates lower... rates will come down at the long end, while the short end is ZIRPED.  Less profits for banks, but a windfall for Treasury supply needs.

The Fed could print, but what purpose does it serve-- and for who's benefit.  You'd think it might be silly to bring that up?  I think the masses are fed up with the "head we win, tails you lose" business model the Fed has embraced with the banksters.  We are one wrong move from street demonstrations, folks.  The Fed and the Treasury better use those valuable resources very wisely.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363805 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

As we go through the bloodbath, consider this:How will the pension plans, modeling 8% returns annually, meet their obligations here in the US?  

They won't!!!

Look for protests and riots coming to a city near you.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:25 | 363848 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

And soon after, martial law...the 'law abiding' people will applaud. It doesn't get better from there.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:37 | 363896 Postal
Postal's picture

What's that quote from Star Wars? "So this is how democracy is defeated? With thundering applause." Or something like that.

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 12:18 | 365883 Coldsun
Coldsun's picture

That's why I invest in precious metals. A bit of copper, a bunch of brass, and a shit-ton of lead.

On a serious note, the ability to protect the people you love and things you have is often overlooked in these "good" times. Buy a gun, make sure you and your family know how to handle and use it, and never give it up - no matter who requests it. During an economic collapse, ammo will be a valuable bartering item as it can protect and provide food (for the skilled in the country).

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:20 | 895652 rubsgen12
rubsgen12's picture


van insurance comparison

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363806 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

We are the Fed, resistance is futile.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:29 | 363868 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

I contributed to Species 8472 campaign. Sorry - but yer dead soon.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:30 | 363870 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:56 | 363957 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

Now could you tell me about your foolproof system to win at Black Jack?

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:56 | 363958 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:19 | 363998 omi
omi's picture

Levels + tick + accu/distribution volume is irellevant largely

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 17:57 | 364123 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

You speak of trading yet you claim a DCF analysis is your #2 criteria for picking something? Hmm..didnt see your spreadsheet for that current trade of BHI.

DCF is only for fundamental analysis.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:31 | 364517 Boston Wealth
Boston Wealth's picture

There is short term trading, day trading, and long term trading.. I used trading as a generic term...

Here is my video on DCF..


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:04 | 364151 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

The fact that you are willing to share with your fellow human beings is note worthy... The fact that you ask nothing in return and try to help others is note worthy...


The people who junk you are angry about the lie of a reality that we all share, it is not because of your thoughtfulness and / or kindness that you are demonstrating... albeit to the best of your ability.


Good Luck with your trading and thank you for sharing.


Sincerely, JW

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:29 | 364511 Boston Wealth
Boston Wealth's picture

My pleasure JW... thanks for the kind words!

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:20 | 364371 Double down
Double down's picture

You forgot the kitchen sink, the baby and the bath water.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 19:38 | 364411 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Hate to rain on your parade. On that amount of capital the return is not that impressive rather dismal.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363810 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

The stocks that need to be hit, that aren't being hit are the banks.  The overall selloff in the markets although needed, doesn't need to be carried out to extremes.  The banks are the problem and they need to be slammed before anything else.

But rightfully so, the FED will print and print and print.  QE 3.0 + 4.0 is coming, once it hits, the takeoff to DOW 30k, Gold 3k, Silver $300 will begin.  Then we will see hyperinfaltion rattle its sword.  Stocks will then be halted for trading permanently, then GOLD/SILVER will continue rise.  This is how I see it all playing out.


Once hyperinflation peaks, then I'm going all in on PIMCO fund and sit back and reap 15%  rates for life.  Fuck a stock.  LOL

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:32 | 364240 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

I'm am by no means a own stocks all the time, person.  I was down to selling my last few % of stocks at s&p 1200.  I was nervous I was going to run out of stuff to sell.  Thanks to ZH and Itulip. (plug here) I have escaped this.


Today however I did buy 1% of net-worth of SPY for yuks at 1090.  At this point p/e on SPY is 18 roughly the 5 year trailing average.  I have another limit order  of 1% nw at 900.  If it cracks 900, I might buy more at 800, but then I'm letting if fall to 600 before i start buying in seriousness.   Also since spy has bank stocks, my next but will some etf that does not conatin bank stocks.  IGE? 


I don't think that this ponzi ends until the treas/fed duo can no longer borrow trillions at 1% interest.   Although just like greece, the party can end quickly.    

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 20:03 | 364466 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

But at some point, doesn't BennyBoy get stopped?

Just like Merkel comes out of left field because of local pressure in Germany, and sets in motion a German plan to escape the French Euro, hasn't BarryO got someone whispering sense into his ear?

Fri, 05/21/2010 - 01:22 | 365081 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

benny will only be stopped by the wolf pack.
barry, harry, and nanci are either dumber than stumps
or smart as foxes. With this last plunge in
rates, i wonder if the treas will be able to
shift the debt load to 30yr.
Maybe they know the jig is up so max out the
card and default.

If benny dosen't act our debt as money system
will collapse. Think that money market fund
you own is money?? :-)

If i were china, i would be trying to wiggle out of
some of my postions too. although if you have
a T dollars, what to you buy? gold? (market too small)
oil? I think thats the ticket trade your T's for
65$ a barrel oil.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:18 | 363813 Goods
Goods's picture

Breaking: we have Leo on the line. Leo what do you make of all this panic in the stock market? How do you respond to Tyler calling it a bloodbath!

You're a rookie who doesn't know his head from his arse. Only chicken shit idiots are selling now. Buy this dip, all of this will blow over. Dow will bounce off its 200 day EMA:

Amazing! Such confidence amongst the madness.

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:19 | 363814 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Get out on everything.

All is going down. A correction of 1000 on the DOW will be mild.

To many media talking about FEAR, CRASH... is scares people and tomorrow friday... it will be a typical 2009 friday. A 100% pure selloff like we knew in those days.



Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:22 | 363834 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Get out? Get in on a double helping of DXESX or DXSSX..! Heck make it a triple!

*pops open another bottle*


Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:32 | 363880 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'm shorting like everything right now since 2 weeks now :)

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 18:34 | 364249 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

oh, i just remembered tomorrow is option expiration day.  party on!

Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:19 | 363815 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

BACK IN BLACK - everyone get some leg tonight.
