Atheists and Islam

No God, not even Allah


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"God is dead" -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead" -God

While it might be logically appeasing, not much upside in proclaiming yourself an atheist. If there is a God, you're not helping your cause. If there isn't, you were right but who cares. Just sayin

lol what a stupid argument. There is no rational chance that a celestial dictator exists that violates the laws of physics. The downside for you is that you live an irrational life. As I have said, there really is no surprise that the vast majority of physicists and biologists are atheists. Belief in a higher power is simply irrational. It is your right and freedom to be irrational.

Not a stupid argument, but game theory applied to religion:) 4 outcomes, 1) believe and right, 2) believe and wrong, 3) don't believe and right, and 4) don't believe and wrong.

Outcome 1 pays off, outcome 2 is indifferent, outcome 3 is indifferent, and outcome 4 may be negative. I am being facetious, but I am certain that this does play a role in the thinking of some.

Umm, and what is the negative consequence of being atheist and being wrong about god? Ohh, you must be talking about the Abrahamic god, who punishes people for not believing.

Well in the case of Allah/Jehovah/Biblical god, are you sure you want to base your belief in him on game theory/pascal's wager? Allah will just see you as a calculating mathematician, not a true believer. Blasphemy! :)

Deebles in reply to ThePleasurePrinciple

To expand on what Y5whatsit said,

Pascal's wager, and your spin on it, fall down on a few points:

- They assume only one religious option, whereas in fact there are many, which generally would not smile on each other.

- They assume that making yourself believe in the hope of reward/avoiding punishment is actually going to be rewarded, when it might equally be judged as deceitful or cowardly.

- They ignore the "cognitive dissonance" cost of trying to make yourself believe something you find false, all the days of your life.

Personally, I'd rather live an intellectually honest life, and will continue to keep atheism as my null hypothesis until I see actual evidence to reject it. And if, in the implausible instance that there is a judgement after death, the being presiding over said judgement decides to judge me negatively for not worshipping them rather than judge me based on the virtues of how I generally dealt with the world that I knew to exist, and especially if they decide I deserve an eternity of torture... then they don't deserve worship anyway.

ThePleasurePrinciple in reply to Deebles

I love listening to arguments trying to "rationalize" religion. It's like watching an action movie with that person who questions how realistic they are...

Anyhoo, once again my argument was facetious, but I can tell you that there are many elderly that wouldn't contemplate not believing out of fear. I happen to fall into the camp that will try my luck at taking the intellectually honest approach. Anyone who actually takes the approach that I posted wouldn't post it, would they?

Deebles in reply to ThePleasurePrinciple

Heh. You'd think so, but you'd fall foul of Po's law in doing so. I've seen Pascal's wager being put forward as a serious proposition more than a few times.

Sorry for overlooking the bit where you actually pointed out you were being facetious, though...


Aethism may be a sin, but an atheist has not been left to the mercy of people. Quran has given every person a free will to be a follower or an aetheist. It's a bond between God and his men and nobody can interfere in this matter. Anybody who wants to punish an aetheist is overreaching his authority and committing a sin himself.

raggar in reply to Javed060

If everyone has free will, then by definition alae cannot be omnipotent. The question then arises as to what limitations Muslims put upon their God. This is the same problem as Christians face with free will. It is another example of religious people painting themselves into a corner.

Nazar Ul Islam

Belief is invisible process! Any body can be a non- believer at any time without making his family and friends known to it. However, it really is tough for him to live, not because of intolerance and threat OF being killed. But it is because of leaving the conditioning which is the most difficult psychological process in the world. It needs immense training. Most of the people feel comfortable within their own religions because they don't wanna resist their questioning.If someone is happy and comfortable within a religious system howsoever, organised and is not harming anyone, then he should not be made as a target


Why am I not surprised that ludicrous laws that persecute the right of free thinking exist in these backwards and brainwashed countries...

BHARAT P in reply to NyKFeowFkx

So why do I think that this sort of arrogant generalized and shallow thinking only exists in the Western Anglo world?
There is a world out there in south east asia, India, and China that is very tolerant.... In fact much more so then the Anglo western world.

We would even tolerate you.

NyKFeowFkx in reply to BHARAT P

I am well aware that there is world out there. I am speaking specifically about the countries mentioned in the article that openly persecute and in some cases imprison or execute people for expressing their religious beliefs. Denying people the right to not believe in a God is ludicrous. It is a basic human right that some of these people are denied.

Any notion that countries such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan are more tolerant than most Western countries is frankly laughable.

ReadyResponse in reply to NyKFeowFkx

Are you even aware of or does The Economist really bother to write about restrictions on free speech as far as 'The Holocaust' is concerned in a few (so-called) advanced Western Europe States? For these countries 'The Holocaust' is a 'Holy Cow' Anyone found saying or writing anything against the Holocaust is immediately prosecuted. So much for Freedom of Expression by - yes you are right, Western Standards! So instead of condemning other cultures and civilizations why do not these supporters of free speech stop to first look in to their own backyards before back-patting themselves? Here I am not defending the actions of a few misguided Muslim societies. I am all for 'free speech' - but only that 'freedom' which does not brazenly attempt to ridicule or hurt other people's cultures, beliefs or way of life. I would urge the Economist to also do more stories on the atrocities and violations of human rights by the Israel government against the Palestinians (the entire Western World looks the other way) over the last so many decades! There is no limit to the amount of torture, misery, racial discrimination, suffering and even deadly bombs that these Palestinian men, women and children have been inflicted upon by the Israelis supported by their super-power backers!

NyKFeowFkx in reply to ReadyResponse

I would argue that there is only a tiny number of Europeans who openly deny the Holocaust. Taking you example into consideration there has only been a handful of cases where convicted people have been given much more than a fine.
You are clearly scraping the barrel to find any significant examples of restrictions on free speech in advanced Western Countries.
On the other hand the example of Ex-Muslim Atheists being persecuted in the article is only one of many examples where people are denied basic human rights in come countries. It is practically illegal to be openly Homosexual in many predominantly Muslim countries.

ReadyResponse in reply to NyKFeowFkx

Sorry your information is incomplete. When I say people - I did not mean only Europeans, but all nationalities. As regards the Claim of Western European nations of being 'liberal' here are two more examples of their intolerant attitude. Both France & Norway have recently banned the Muslim hijaab for women in their countries. This is comparable to the ban by Saudi Arabia from keeping women's faces uncovered. But a biased Western mind will immediately say - covering up women is 'suppression' but allowing them to frolic semi-naked in public is completely acceptable! Then how does one reconcile once again with the double standards of the Westerners in allowing Catholic nuns to wear their 'habit' (which in terms of covering up the female body is similar to the 'hijaab') and also considering these nuns as 'holy and spiritual' whereas branding Muslim women as being 'suppressed' for wearing a hijaab? Moreover you have failed to respond to the charges of atrocities committed by the Israelis on an entire 'people' under the garb of 'security'.The sheer scale of numbers involved in the two cases - atheism v/s state sponsored repression is mind boggling!

ReadyResponse in reply to nixavis

Thank God that you are honest enough to admit that a streak of intolerance has crept in to the Western mind-set as well! Any un-biased person going through my posts can vouch for the fact that I have neither used arrogant or abusive language but just stated facts as they are to the best of my knowledge. But when Truth is hurled against falsehood - falsehood perishes. For falsehood by its very nature is perishable. It is heartening to note that when confronted with un-comfortable factual information about France & Norway - you have chosen to dismiss it 'with a sigh' :) So much for 'liberty & free speech'.

bless y all

Sermons of the Copy Rider
He wrote moving obituaries
To make ends meet,
And rode the coffee machines
The way you and I tweet…
He rode to offices
To make the last rides clean,
And purely by rote wrote
The last rites serene…
Eroding the Mountains,
Glaciers and pithy domains,
Promoting the meek n mild,
Crushing the sovereign…
He wrote for many agencies,
Clients and retired bores,
And he rode the frisky mares
Writing to inspire snores…
And he rode the dusty ride
In the silence of the pride,
Ensconced in the camaraderie
With which the blessed ride…
He wrote their long lists of
Myopic greed-based needs,
And rode the urban roads
In search of peace loving breeds…
He rode through the day
And parts of the night,
Strengthening the meek
With the Creator’s light…
He wrote advertisements
That most would call shit,
And he rode his pen on paper
Doing his two paise bit…
He rode on the crest of failure,
Underwriting with aplomb,
Come wind, come weather,
Deflowering the precocious bomb…
And he rode the full distance
Writing in the light of his might,
Shielded in the arms of Him
Who blesses every ride…

Sally Carmen Carmen

I have been living in Egypt and have a nominally Muslim husband. he is not interested at all in religion but his religion is on his ID card and has to be the religion of his father like every other egyptian. you cannot leave the faith, it is illegal, you cannot change faith, you would risk being arrested or even your own family being obliged to kill you. this environment only succeeds in keeping people in fear and terror but I am sure that underneath all this there must be millions and millions who are either atheist or just not interested in the faith. that is why they have to control.

Sassan K. Darian

Great article! It is time for reason to take over the world. And although I was never raised religious and the fact is that the vast majority of Iranians are not religious; I was in a society in which Islam was and is forced down everyone's throat. That and the fact that our culture is pre-Islamic, it should be no surprise that there are more apostates (atheists) behind closed doors on average than in most western countries. And even more than atheists those that simply no longer even self-identify as Muslims. Free Iran, and a secular democratic country will emerge. The other Arab countries Islam is much more ingrained into them culturally and socially. Great article, thanks!


A few random quotes from one of my favourite authors, Tom Robbins, might be relevant here:
'A longing for the divine is intrinsic in Homo Sapiens. (For all we know, it is innate in squirrels, dandelions, and diamond rings as well.) We approach the Divine by enlarging our souls and lighting up our brains. To expedite those two things may be the mission of our existence.'
"Once religion became political, the exercise of it, too, could be said to lead sooner or later to war. "War is hell." Thus, religious belief propels us straight to hell. History unwaveringly supports this view. (Each modern religion has boasted that it and it alone is on speaking terms with the Deity, and its adherents have been quite willing to die—or kill—to support its presumptuous claims.)"
and finally:
Religion is nothing but institutionalized mysticism. The catch is, mysticism does not lend itself to institutionalization. The moment we attempt to organize mysticism, we destroy its essence. Religion, then, is mysticism in which the mystical has been killed. Or, at least diminished....... not only is religion divisive and oppressive, it is also a denial of all that is divine in people; it is a suffocation of the soul."


I am just one more person in a sea of 6 billion.
My planet is just a dot in a galaxy of uncountable solar systems.
My galaxy is just one more in a sea of galaxies we call universe that no one knows where it ends even the guys at NASA and CERN who have the best equipments to peep out of earth.
This universe obeys a set of laws that we keep on understanding in a very slow process.
Just the earth alone is a complex system that many are not intelligent enough to study.
With all our technology and knowledge we have not been able to make something without starting from something.
The are billions of species of living things just on earth.
The earth is the only planet that supports human life known in our solar system.
Our production systems are so ineffective, we produce cars but in the process our factories poison our air. We drive cars at the same time poisoning our air.
I am free but I did not choose my parents.
I am smarter than many, many are smarter than me too. No one can know the smartest person on earth at any moment.
I could go on an on.
Science is not new in every age, men have tried to master their environment.
Atheism is as old as man.
The say that atheists are fools simply because they cannot make a simply logical deduction after observing existence. Which deduction? That Someone understands the universe completely, is the origin and manipulates it. In the history of mankind that Someone is referred to as God.
if you think religion bullshit, I understand you, and I am ready to enter dialogue with you but only on behalf of the Christian religion (because I can´t explain any other), but if you say God does not exists, it is either you are joking or your brain ain´t just working.

raggar in reply to llora

Just because the line of argument you have chosen requires the existence of God, does not prove conclusively that God exists. There is no conclusive proof that God exists or indeed that the existence of God is a necessary precursor to the existence of the universe.

Sally Carmen Carmen in reply to llora

nothing in your long tiresome essay points to the existence of god at all. for example 'I am free but I did not choose my parents.
I am smarter than many, many are smarter than me too. No one can know the smartest person on earth at any moment.' what has that got to do with anything?

Peter the Cat in reply to llora

So, you observe complexity, and make a simple "logical" deduction that god exists, and atheists are fools ? Sorry but the "deity from complexity" argument is THE classic example that can be used to illustrate a number of informal fallacies, among them: "cognitive bias","The Great Magnet", and "wishful thinking". Your deduction is in no way logical, but the product of your delusions.

The article, though, is not about whether God exists: It's about execution of apostates in Muslim countries. What is your opinion on the topic ?

Deebles in reply to llora

Until I got to the final paragraph, I thought you were making a (poorly written) argument _for_ atheism, or at least agnosticism, not against it. The fact that the world is complex, and that we keep learning more and more about just how complex it is all the time, is not an argument in favour of the truth of religions plainly forged in an earlier time based on the prevailing knowledge of the universe (or lack thereof) at that earlier time.

guest-ilollwl in reply to llora

The confidence on the existence of God lays on the pure logic. The challange is to define it. I can't see any nonsense in thinking that we don't have the cognitive capacity to understand God - which means, the cause. Ok, the atheist explanantion that there is no providence, no government of the world, etc makes sense, but they don't have any logical explanation about the beginning of everything. It's logical for me that God exists, and that is not a religious view, it's elementar philosophy. If an atheist presents me a logical view in this specific point - the beginning of everything - I swear that I reconsider my position about atheism.


Religion is something like invisible pink Unicorn. Why should we fight about such abstract things with so many miseries in our world? Why should one religion try to dominate other? Why doesn't all religions unite and fight for common brotherhood? A request ton all religious people, please conme out of imagination and try to involve in solving our earth's problems.


As communism was once banned of the world in the 20th century for the safe of the good side of the world, islamism also has to be wiped out of minds and hearts in general. Islam is the most delayed, violent, destructive ideological power that manaces the free world nowadays. West world has this mission.


Check Deuteronomy 13, 6-11. If all religions were to follow all their mandates literally, we'd be annihilating each other faster than we already are. "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes". Thanks, Karl.

Mandy Cat in reply to Lucho21

One major difference between conservatives and liberals is that, while they both consider religion the opiate of the masses, folks on the right consider that a good thing. Here in America, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street bankers and the major oil companies should give thanks daily to the Religious Right for having provided such a useful smokescreen for decades of mutually profitable hanky panky.


I have lived my entire life as a Muslim in varying non-muslim societies across North America and Europe. I went through a phase in university of trying to understand some of the other religions in the world and often engaged in interfaith panels, which often included discussions with Atheists. What I've found is the discussion always turning to common grounds rather than differences, overwhelming agreement on the importance of basic human values of life, love, and equality in society. I grew close to those who believed in humanity because of our mutual love for human life, culture, literature, and our place on Earth together. I am saddened to see that we dwell so much on our differences rather than working together to create a more peaceful, honest, and tolerance global society.

Regardless of what our personal beliefs are, we cannot impose belief or lack of belief in any type of God or supreme being. In our daily lives, we all work hard to accomplish our best in contributing to society, and we should work towards that common goal. I regret that many people in the muslim world impose themselves on others and can justify causing harm to anyone, for any reason. But I think many of these behaviours are not as a result of extreme devoutness to Allah, but rather a need to follow some form of society. Unfortunately, many of the muslim countries are not fully developed and many of the lower socioeconomic groups do not have access to the basic educational systems (that we take for granted) that allow them to develop critical thinking skills to reason for themselves. They simply become followers of those who set rules of right and wrong without questioning the logic, and follow leaders such as a family elder or Imam in a mosque. Often these people will have studied Islam, but without the depth of understanding of the importance of caring of the weak, supporting the underprivileged, and learning to love your neighbour.

If we focus on fighting the corruption that continues to prevent equal access to education, health, and basic human rights, we can work together to improve societies around the world and empower people to contribute more positively to THIS life than focusing so much on what may or may not exist after death. Let's all keep our personal beliefs to ourselves and work to create a healthier, safer, more efficient society where we can all be tolerant, happy, and continually strive to improve ourselves.

Rablossom in reply to nY6ftt5F8G

I am a Christian agreeing wholeheartedly with this post. Yes, there are significant differences between faiths (and lack of faiths), but the attributes that unite us do not support discrimination, hate and imposition.


I have to wonder how many ex-muslims there are in the closet around the world. It seems a very frightening thing to have to live a lie or else suffer severe consequences and inflict further consequences on your family.



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