


Spoiler alert! This post discusses many plot points and the ending of "Avengers: Endgame," so beware if you haven't seen it yet. 

All those big goosebumpy moments that you adored in “Avengers: Endgame"? The guys who wove them together for the newest Marvel blockbuster loved them, too.

“Part of the reason we connect so strongly to these movies and the material and the audience is because we're fans,” says Joe Russo, who with brother Anthony directed “Endgame,” their fourth Marvel throwdown.

The time-traveling adventure “Endgame” finishes off the 22-film saga of the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far, and the Russos chatted with USA TODAY about decisions behind the film's most shocking scenes and how they could lead into the next phase of superhero fare

** This is your last chance to bail out because spoilers are coming. You were warned! **

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Why was Sam Wilson the best choice to be the next Captain America?

The two candidates best suited to wield the shield if Steve Rogers (Chris Evans) ever gave it up were fellow soldier Sam (Anthony Mackie), aka the Falcon, and Steve’s childhood friend Bucky Barnes (Sebastian Stan), aka the former brainwashed Hydra assassin Winter Soldier. After the heroes defeat Thanos, Steve goes back in time to place the Infinity Stones in the periods they belong but stops off to spend a lifetime with his love Peggy Carter (Hayley Atwell). When his friends next see him, Steve’s an old man who passes the Cap mantle to Sam.

“So far as matching the level of integrity of Captain America, Sam is pound for pound as morally forthright as anyone in the Marvel universe. And Bucky's a damaged character,” says Joe Russo. His brother Anthony adds that they debated the choice, but the bond Steve and Sam formed in “Winter Soldier” sealed a certain trust. “Sam spends his time trying to repair other people who are broken by war, and it just feels like he has the same values as Captain America.”

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Have we seen the last of Steve Rogers?

That question triggers the Marvel secrecy shroud: “We can't really comment on that,” Anthony Russo says. But after fighting for his country (and the planet), watching loved ones die, navigating war and dealing with tragedy, Steve getting a happy ending with Peggy and choosing to do something for himself for a change was the right end to his journey for the Russos.

Cap is "born to serve," says Anthony Russo. "For him to make a choice that is mostly about his own individuality, his own self-actualization, that's really the completion of his arc.” 

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Did Iron Man really have to die?

Steve Rogers' character arc ended up being the inverse of Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.), who died on the battlefield after using the Infinity Gauntlet to wipe out Thanos and his army for good. Back in 2008’s “Iron Man,” Stark started as a cocky, egotistical weapons manufacturer and has been on a heroic path ever since, though in “Endgame,” he initially tells his fellow Avengers he’s uninterested in risking his life because he’s committed to protecting the life he’s made with wife Pepper Potts (Gwyneth Paltrow) and their daughter.

“And then he ultimately decides to make the greatest sacrifice possible, leaving them behind,” Joe Russo says. “When you go back and look at that character in the first ‘Iron Man’ and where he ends up, it's one of the great arcs in movie history.”  

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But, seriously ... RIP Black Widow, too?

During the time heist, Widow (Scarlett Johansson) and Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner) travel to the planet Vormir to get the Soul Stone but find out that requires one of them to die. Both have done things they’re not proud of and are ready to sacrifice themselves for the greater good – in fact, they fight it out in a battle of wills – but Widow wins so that her friend can see his family again.

There was a lot of back and forth between the filmmakers to figure out which one of them would sacrifice themselves. 

Hawkeye, for one, “feels like he's not worthy of (his family) any longer," Anthony Russo says. "But the fact of the matter is, he has the option of seeing them again." Widow, though, is "willing to make the greatest sacrifice for the (superhero) community,” Joe Russo adds. ”That's really poignant and why we felt it was a better story to tell with her.”

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What’s up with Thor’s beer belly?

Feeling the guilt of not being able to take out Thanos before he wipes out half the universe in “Infinity War” sends Thor (Chris Hemsworth) to a bad place, where he isolates himself and his chiseled physique veers wildly out of shape, thanks to drinking, junk food and video games.

“These movies are so built around these idealized physical specimens," Anthony Russo says. "It's fun to finally have a narrative reason to get away from that.”

The Russos love to deconstruct things, and with Thor, they wanted to crack the thunder god’s emotional vulnerability by making him lose everything and show that physically. That said, “we never thought of him as a loser," Anthony Russo says. "He's still Thor, he's still inspiring.” 

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What year is it anyway? 

Between the Avengers’ time heist and multiple, existence-altering snaps of the Infinity Gauntlet, it gets a little confusing. But the Russos confirm that “Endgame” ends in 2023, five years after Thanos’ original snap in “Infinity War.” Survivors have tried to move on and those who returned "lost out on those five years,” Joe Russo says. “So now there are stories to tell moving forward about how they all interact with each other.”

One of those tales is presumably the next Marvel film: “Spider-Man: Far From Home” (out July 2) finds Peter Parker (Tom Holland) on a class trip to Europe with friends like best bud Ned (Jacob Batalon). The two have an emotional meetup in the halls of their high school during the “Endgame” finale, knowing they were both snapped.

"People they knew are older and have graduated,” Joe Russo says. “So it's a moment of relief and joy for those two to see each other and also the complication of what is their life moving forward.”

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Listen to this week's episode of USA TODAY's podcast, The Mothership, in the player below. This week the crew goes to spoilertown on Avengers "End Game" and  "The battle of Winterfell".


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