Thursday, October 23, 2014

The Mystery of RIEß Sisters - Part 2

My Assertion:  Anna Catharina Riess, wife of Joh. Ernst Menge, and Anna Elisabeth Catharina Riess, wife of Joh. Ernst Christian Kreuter, were sisters. Both Riess women were the daughters of Joh. Clemens Riess and Anna Margareth Kleberger of Södel, Hessen, Germany.

Given this assertion, the Södel Familenbuch (page 266) is mistaken to list Anna Elisabeth Riess, wife of Joh. Ernst Christian Kreuter, as the daughter of Hans Martin Rieß. She was instead the daughter of Martin's brother, Joh. Clemens Rieß, and a sister of Anna Catharina who married Joh. Ernst Menge.

My Argument:
The first question is if indeed the two Riess women were sisters, who were the parents they had in common? For the time period in question, the only Rieß in Södel who had sons who might have been father to these girls was Johann Riess and his wife Anna Margreth. Their sons were:
  • Johannes Riess had a daughter named Anna Catharina, 1670-1671.  He did not have any daughters with the name Elisabeth.
  • Joh. Clemens Riess had daughters named 
     Anna Elisabetha 1684-1694
     Anna Catharina born in 1690, married Joh. Ernst Menge
     Catharina born in 1694
  • Hans Martin Riess had daughters named
     Anna Elisabetha, 1685-1761, married Joh. Ernst Klein
     Catharina, born 1692                                                 
     Maria Kat, 1700-1775, married Johannes Sommer

Given this information, I eliminate Johannes Rieß as the possible father of the sisters in question. That leaves Clemens and Martin, both of whom had daughters named Elisabeth and Catharina. Remember we are looking for one sister who married Menge and the other sister who married Kreuter.  

In the case of Clemens, his daughter Elisabetha died when she was 10 years old, and supposedly his daughter Anna Catharina married Menge in 1709.  

In the case of Martin, two of the three daughters who can be considered for this scenario married someone other than Menge or Kreuter. So even if it was Martin's daughter Catharina who married Menge, Martin does not appear to have had another daughter who married Kreuter. I therefore conclude that Clemens was indeed the father of Anna Catharina who married Menge, and so by extension Clemens must also be the father of the wife of Kreuter. But how can that conclusion be supported given this evidence?

In looking again at the daughters of Clemens, it happens that the death of the first daughter, Anna Elisabetha, is very likely significant. The daughter baptized as Catharina on 17 Aug 1694 was born 7 days after her older sister Anna Elisabetha died on 10 Aug 1694! In cases like this, it was the custom to name the next born child of the same gender with the name of the child who just died. There must have been a godmother with the name Catharina, thus it seems entirely probable that the daughter of Clemens baptized as Catharina in 1694 had three names: Anna Elisabetha Catharina - Anna Elisabetha for her dead sister, and Catharina for her godmother, whoever that was. This would also explain how all three of these names appear in various combinations in reference to the woman who married Kreuter.

In this scenario, not only were Anna Catharina Riess Menge and Anna Elisabetha Catharina Riess Kreuter sisters as the church documentation stated, but they were close in age and probably close emotionally, especially after both their parents died when the girls were still minors. After the sisters each married, the Menge's and the Kreuter's each served to sponsor a child from the other's family. And indeed, children from their two families ventured to the New World to the same city (Philadelphia) to the same church (St. Michaels and Zion Lutheran Church) where they continued to sponsor each other's families.  

But then we have to wonder what happened to Martin's daughter named Catharina, born in 1692? Where previously the same question applied to the daughter of Clemens named Catharina and the answer was Unknown, now the same answer applies to the daughter of Martin named Catharina. It is Unknown what became of her.

So there rests my case. I am in the process of taking a class that will help me learn to write a genealogical proof argument, so maybe I can use this as my test case in class! I'll let you know how that turns out. Meanwhile, I welcome comments and feedback.

Wednesday, October 22, 2014

The Mystery of RIEß Sisters - Part 1

The record that broke the brick wall in our Menge/Rieß research and allowed us to make the leap from Philadelpia to Södel, Germany was the following burial record from the St. Michaels and Zion German Lutheran church in Philadelphia:


This record connected our Ernst Menge with Södel where we subsequently found a Familenbuch that recorded many Menge and Rieß families. The above burial record states that the mother of Anna Catharina Killman (Gillman) was Elisabeth Ries, and we already knew that Ernst Menge had married Anna Catharina Ries, so the thought was that the two Rieß women must have been sisters.

This thought was furthered by finding the baptism record for Anna Catharina Kreuter, born 23 May 1732 in Södel. Not only was the godmother listed as the wife of Ernst Menge, but she was further noted as being the father's sister-in-law. This seems like plenty to confirm that Elisabeth and Anna Catharina Rieß were sisters.

Except not. The previously mentioned Familienbuch states that Elisabeth was the daughter of Hans Marten Rieß and Anna Catharina was the daughter of Marten's brother, Joh. Clemens Rieß. These two brothers did not share the same wife, so how could these two women share the same parents and thus be siblings? More digging has been required.

What I have found is a wide inconsistency in the names associated with the mother of Anna Catharina Kreuter. All of these records supposedly point to the same person:
  1. Södel Familenbuch.  This sources lists Hans Marten Riess as having TWO daughters named Anna Elisabeth. First AE, born 1685, married Joh. Ernst Klein in 1705. Second AE, born 1692, married JEC Kreuter in 1714. I suspect the Familenbuch is incorrect about the name of the second AE, and I plan to send an inquiry to the book's author about the source of this information.
  2. Baptism record.  On 17 Apr 1692, Martin Riess christened a daughter named Catharina.
  3. Marriage record.  The marriage record for JEC Kreuter lists the name of the bride as Elisabetha Catharina.  It should be noted that this record does not give any indication as to the bride's family of origin.
  4. Death record.  On 23 Nov 1749, the widow of JEC Kreuter died. Her name is listed as Anna Elisabeth, and her occupation is listed as a midwife.
  5. Baptism record of AC Kreuter lists the godmother as the wife of Ernst Menge, and the sister-in-law of JEC Kreuter.  While this record does not list the mother's name, we know that Ernst Menge married Anna Catharina Riess, thus the child was given the name Anna Catharina. This record furthermore appears to establish the wives of JEC Kreuter and Ernst Menge as sisters.
  6. Obituary of AC Kreuter Gillman in PHL lists her mother as Elisabeth Riessin.
It is entirely worth noting that there was another girl born in Södel on 5 April 1692, named Anna Catharina Elisabetha. If you visit, you will see that they associated the surname Ries with this child. However, in looking at the original church record, there is mention of the wife and the daughter of the then mayor (Schultheiß) of Södel, Johannes Rieß.  The second wife of Johannes Rieß was named Elisabetha, and the only daughters of Herr Rieß had from his previous marriage who might still have been alive at this time were named Anna Margretha and Ursula. With that in mind, I consulted with the author of the Familienbuch to assist in the transcription and translation of the baptism record of the girl born 5 April 1692. Essentially, the girl was the child of a foreign soldier and his wife had the child in transit. Because there were no godparents for the child in Södel, the wife of the Södel mayor (Johannes Rieß), as well as his daughter stood in to sponsor the child for baptism. So the bottom line appears to be that the child born 5 Apr 1692 was apparently not a Rieß child, and thus was probably NOT the future wife of Joh. Ernst Christian Kreuter nor the sister of Anna Catharina Rieß.

So where to go next with this mystery? I have a theory, so stay tuned for an update on this topic.

(Note: in order to help search matching, I include the following spellings in this article: Ries, Riess, Kreider, Sodel, Soedel)

SPELLINGS: Männge - Menge - Mann

I thought I would share part of an email from our relation in Germany.  She wrote:

The name "Menge" may be the Diminutiv of "Mann". In dialect folk may call "menge" a little Mann. In plattdütsch it is "Männke", in Hochdeutsch it is "Männchen". In Bacharach/Rhein my forefathers in church records were written "Männge", so you can see they were thinking of "Männchen".

What is wonderful about this explanation is that in the old Philadelphia church records, we did find occurrences of the spelling "Männchen" or other spellings very close to this. Especially since this spelling varies significantly from "Menge", I always felt somewhat nervous about whether the records we found really do apply to our family. Now those doubts are gone.  Amen.


I've been very excited lately to discover other destinations where our Menge and Rieß relations from Södel departed to. I'll include here some brief family history summary to show context.

Balthasar Menge (1647-1715) and his wife Elisabetha are our oldest known relations on the Menge side.
  • Their son, Joh. Ernst Menge (1681-1760) and his wife Anna Catharina Rieß had, as we know, several children who came to America in the 1750s, at least three sons and possibly some daughters.
  • Another son, Wilhelm Menge (1671-?) had a son, Joh. Henrich Menge who emigrated to Bacharach in the Rhineland-Palatinate where he married Maria Magdalena Kümpel. I have made contact with a living descendant from this line who resides in Germany still! It's been very fun to correspond with this descendant as we have been able to share a good deal of information about our Södel roots.
On the maternal side, our oldest known relations are Johann Rieß (1620-1663) and his wife Anna Margreth.
  • Their son, Joh. Clemens Rieß (1653-1706) and his wife Anna Margreth Kleberger had a daughter, Anna Catharina, who married our Joh. Ernst Menge previously mentioned.
  • Another son, Hans Martin Rieß (1655-1703) and his wife Elisabeth Catharina Feyh had a daughter, Anna Elisabetha, who married Joh. Ernst Klein.  Their son, Joh. Philip Klein, apparently emigrated to Russia! Here is a wonderful link describing that journey. They settled in a German Lutheran colony called Frank, and again here is another link with a wonderful overview of the history of that colony.
(Note: In order to view more than two pages from the website given in the above links, you will have to register and then enter a password to continue reading. It is so worth it to take this step as I can't recommend this website enough for the quality of information it offers.)

However, let me here describe what I believe to be a mix-up in many Klein genealogies I have seen on the internet.
  • Joh. Philip Klein and Anna Elisabetha Raab had a son named Joh. Adam Klein, born 15 March 1749 in Södel. This son apparently did not travel to Russia with his parents in 1766. According to Die Familien, Chronik Södel, Band 2 by Herbert Meyer, this son emigrated to America. I did find an arrival record in Philadelphia for a Joh. Adam Klein in 1769 but have not been able to trace what happened to him.
  • There was a Joh. Adam Klein born 16 Jun 1745 in Neider-Wöllstadt, son of Johannes Klein and M. Elis. Mohr. It should be noted that Neider-Wöllstadt is close to Södel, but it is NOT the same place. This Joh. Adam Klein married Anna Maria Fischer, and there is a record of Joh. Adam Klein of Nieder-Wöllstadt going to Russia in 1766. Here is where I have found many genealogies that mistakenly state that this Joh. Adam Klein, a colonist in Frank, Russia, descends from Joh. Philip Klein of Södel.
It could still be true that the two Klein families mentioned here are related. However, based on the evidence I have seen in this particular case, I think it is correct to say that Joh. Philip Klein from Södel and Joh. Adam Klein from Nieder-Wöllstadt both arrived in Russia in 1766.

With all that said, I find it very exciting to learn more about our Södel relations who emigrated to other parts of the world.

(Note: in order to help search matching, I include the following spellings in this article:  Riess, Sodel, Soedel, Nieder-Wollstadt, Nieder-Woellstadt)