How Krispy Kreme Creates Personal Experiences with a Global Audience

How Krispy Kreme Creates Personal Experiences with a Global Audience

Kelley O’Brien, Director – Interactive, Digital, Social at Krispy Kreme, joins the Content Experience Show to discuss bringing personal experiences to a worldwide audience.

In This Episode:

Kelley O'Brien

Krispy Kreme

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Full Episode Details

A Global Yet Personal Experience

One of the beautiful things about social media is that a person can engage with their favorite businesses and have a personalized experience that was completely unavailable in the very recent past. As your business grows, however, the challenge becomes maintaining that personal experience with an ever-diversifying audience.

Consumer preference, taste, and even sense of humor can vary wildly by region, not to mention by country and continent. Kelley O’Brien, Director – Interactive, Digital, Social at Krispy Kreme, has a lot of experience and advice to give on how to balance global appeal with a consistently personal experience.

According to her strategy, once you have established your overall voice and built a strong core foundation for how your business engages on a grand scale, you should empower your regional representatives to speak with your voice directly to their communities. By giving them the ability to speak for the brand on a local level, you can keep a global consistency while developing something unique and engaging for the many audiences who wish to connect with your brand.

In This Episode

  • How social can be used to engage your audience in product creation
  • Why being a B2C brand with a fun persona still requires strategy and planning
  • How to balance a personal experience with a global experience with a multinational audience

Quotes From This Episode

If it's not in our voice or where our fan base is, it doesn't stay true to the engagements. Click To Tweet

“Where can we take it to the level of bringing people a unique experience, but not taking it to the extreme experience?” — @kelleyob

“Set the right foundation, do the right training, and you empower each of the regions to speak in your voice.” — @kelleyob


Content Experience Lightning Round

Chocolate or vanilla donut?


Glazed or filled?


Favorite annual event?


Netflix or movie theater?

While she’s more of a Netflix kind of person, she does enjoy going to art theaters when she does go out!

What are you watching on Netflix these days?

Kelley is a huge fan of The Walking Dead and is currently re-watching to gear up for the new season!

See you next week!

What Great Brands Do That Good Brands Don't in Content Marketing


Episode Transcript

Randy:Welcome to the Content Experience Show. I am Randy Frisch. As always, I've got Anna Hrach joining me from Convince and Convert. Today, we have a really bright guest. All of our guests really are bright, but this one brought just a whole other level of sensory overload, if you will, to the podcast, which is as I was looking at some of the creative that they do for their content, I couldn't help but crave a snack. I don't know, Anna, did you have that same feeling?
Anna:Oh, totally. Yeah, we don't normally start these episodes issuing warnings, but fair warning for today. You are going to get hungry. That's because we're talking to Kelly O'Brien, how is the director of interactive digital and social at Krispy Kreme. If you don't have a snack in front of you already, you might want to just hit pause real quick, grab a quick bite, and come back, because we couldn't not talk about donuts on this episode. We talk about a lot of other stuff too, but we talk a lot about donuts.
Randy:Yeah. I feel like we could do this whole intro just on some of our favorite donuts. If you go to the Krispy Kreme donut website, Twitter page, Instagram feed, YouTube channel, we're talking about content here, so we're safe to keep going here, but it is just temptation. I know I shouldn't cross contaminate brands, but it's like when you're walking through that food court and there's a Cinnabon, and you just have to stop and be like, "Okay, where's that coming from?" Right? It's that same feeling when you see some of their content. It literally locks you in.
Anna:Totally. The funny thing too is you wouldn't think that there's so much content to create for donuts. We talk about this a little bit in the episode where it's a donut brand, and it's a very distinctive brand, too, Krispy Kreme. Even if people haven't had it for regional reasons, you know exactly what a Krispy Kreme is and you know the cult following behind it, but there's a lot of content, a ton of content actually to be created, as we're going to find out, and on a global scale too.
Randy:Absolutely. These guys are succeeding to your point, because I don't know about you, but I drive by Dunkin Donuts when I'm in the US. I drive by Tim Horton's when I'm normally in Canada, and yeah, I don't necessarily think, "That would be fun right now," but these guys have done something with their brand. I think a lot of it stems from their content and that consistency. I think that's what I took away from this episode is the consistency with which they go to market.
The other interesting part is that they're starting to allow their consumer to be part of the conversation. I thought that was really interesting how Kelly, and you'll all hear, how she describes this crowdsourcing activity they did to actually figure out how to glaze a donut for this upcoming season.
Anna:It's awesome the way that they've really actually literally created an experience around donuts and just around Krispy Kreme in general. Before we give away the rest of the episode, Randy, what do you think? Time to hear from Kelly?
Randy:I think it's time to bring her in. I think you started off the conversation, so we'll roll with that. Here we go, Anna and Kelly talking donuts.
Anna:Kelly, thank you so much for joining us today. It is such a pun-intended treat to talk to you. If you wouldn't mind, would you just tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
Kelly:Hi, yes. Thank you so much for having me. I've been with Krispy Kreme now I'm going on my seventh year with Krispy Kreme. I started out the brand on all of our platforms creating our own communities within each, and I've really seen a lot of the growth and success since we started. My background is I've been in several industries, such as healthcare, automotive, and then now in food. It's great to be a part of the restaurant industry.
Randy:That must have been an interesting jump from healthcare to Krispy Kreme.
Anna:I was just going to say the same thing.
Randy:How could we resist?
Kelly:Well part of it is it was like medical tourism. If you imagine that people, sometimes there's certain services that they need or want, and it's more of not necessarily a ... It's a want more than a need. It's fulfilling that need or desire that they have to maybe take themselves to the next level. Then also if you think about donuts, it's kind of a treat or reward for doing that. It's everything in moderation.
Anna:That's fantastic that you made that jump and that you actually do find the parallel, because I think a lot of people out there were probably scratching their heads, saying, "How does that actually happen?" What were some of the kind of surprising things that you discovered as you jumped into the world of donuts and this totally different type of marketing?
Kelly:Well, I looked at everyone's at the same place or same level for the same demands and needs. We all have content desires. We all have content growth and future and aspiration for where we see ourselves as brands. It's looking at where we could see ourselves reaching the masses and reaching them effectively and creating community. I found a lot of parallels. In building that audience, it seemed as you can stretch your audience to the next level of where your content may take them, and where you may, as a brand, experience it.
From healthcare, a lot of it was education and helping people understand why they may select certain services as part of enhancing their lives. Then with donuts, it was kind of like, well, how do you unite people with bringing happiness and joy and making people's lives better, whether or not they're having a terrible day, having the best day ever, but how do you think about all those occasions and moments, and doing a lot of occasion based marketing? It's more or less of switching from education to being more event-based and being more occasion-based.
Anna:One of the ways you've been able to do that is, as we were kind of talking before the recording here, you're really leveraging your audience in the best way possible to create a lot of those amazing content moments. Can you dive a little bit deeper into sort of the biggest sort of cool campaign with crowdsourcing that you just did?
Kelly:Yes. We started out the year with a Vote for Glaze campaign. If you could imagine, there were three mentions every minute that our fans talked to us. Now out of those three mentions for every minute, we have fans that are telling us, "Make this donut. Make this donut," or, "Come here, move here, and open here." Out of that, we noticed a pattern of fans that were just like, "You know what? I want this flavor donut."
We created this Vote for Glaze campaign where we gave four key flavors that our fans had talked about in one experience or another over time and asked them to rally around their favorite flavor. We're going to bring this to live this spring. The very first donut that actually won was the lemon glaze. People had said, "You know what? You have lemon donuts already." No, the thing that we haven't changed or that we have never created was a lemon glaze.
We had experimented during the eclipse last year with eclipsing our donuts and turning them chocolate. We noticed how much our fans really loved the fact that we played with something that in the original true flavor of Krispy Kreme, and then taking it over for a day or a week, and seeing how that affects their lives, and how it affects their craveability and the taste buds and everything else. We noticed our fans just got more and more passionate as this grew.
I think we saw epic historical moments that happened on our website through social content that kept driving people and driving the demand. It would be that of National Donut Day equivalent traffic that we were bringing to our website. It was pretty phenomenal that this voting event where people had to go to a landing page to vote and express themselves, and then they take it out socially. Had a lot of great media response and influencer response as well. It was a fun, well-orchestrated campaign.
Randy:That's so much fun. I love when brands to that, where they take user feedback, they ingest it in. One of my other favorite ones, I'm Canadian, so I don't know if they do this in the US too, but I think it's Lay's potato chips that does user generated flavors where they're wacky and wild. We've got ketchup chips, so that in themselves I know a lot of Americans are jealous of, but I really love the way you did this. Maybe you can share with us, Kelly, some of the channels that you use at Krispy Kreme to solicit feedback and understand what people were looking for. I personally went and checked out your Instagram, which had some calls to action there. I also saw some fun stuff on YouTube. How did you kind of go to market with this?
Kelly:Yes, so we organically had seen a lot of patterns through uses of #krispykreme on Instagram and had seen a lot of flavors pop up. I had open listened. We use NUVI. We were open and listening to a lot of different flavors prior to coming up with the idea, and looking at what flavors resonated the most with our fans. There's some that we had thought, "You know what? This would just be interesting, because it's kind of different, and there's no other brands doing X flavor."
Last year, we also launched a gingerbread glaze, but we realized necessarily gingerbread, it's a fun flavor, and there was a lot happening on that time, but we realized how many fans were really expressing, "Well, if you're going to do that flavor, I wish you would make this flavor and this flavor." Across the board or across the globe, we would also listen. We'd have people just email us in general. We'd have people tweet us and on Facebook, nonstop comment
It was between Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram where most of our fans were rallying around the flavors that they wanted most, and that's where we just started saying, "You know what? This seems like this would be a great thing to do." We first thought about, and we had talked about should we do some sort of aggregation of all the tweets and using hashtags, but we wanted to simplify it though, because people jump across so many other platforms. We decided at this point to have people go to a landing page and actually vote, and then share what they had voted so we could cross all social panels.
We use a lot of Instagram stories as well to drive more content engagement and to really show craveable videos. That's the one thing that resonated. You would think of course with a brand like ours, that seem streams of our glazing donuts coming through, people might get tired of it if you saw it day after day, but actually our fans, that's what they crave. It's almost like food porn that they want to see this nonstop glazing image. That's typically what our fans will say, "You know what? That's going to make me, no matter what language I speak, no matter what country I'm in, this is the one thing I'm going to relate to the most with this brand." It's that and our hats and the hot light [inaudible 00:10:47]. It's pretty funny.
Randy:My kids love your hats. I now love that term, I think did you say food porn at one point in there?
Kelly:Yeah, food porn. Yeah.
Randy:Okay, cool. That's going to be the hashtag that's going to definitely be created as people are listening to this podcast, which is great. We like it. You guys have, I was checking on Instagram, you're closing in on a million followers, which is pretty amazing. Were you able to measure the type of interaction you had from this campaign, the number of people who either voted or shared their opinion with a hashtag, what type of lift did you see, versus the stuff that you're doing on a day-to-day basis to stick out from the treat crowd?
Kelly:I saw a 200% lift in engagement during this campaign. We used Facebook Pixels to track the activity and to track the voting. We embedded the Pixels on the backend, and we looked at where people were [inaudible 00:11:49] sources, and all the demographics where everybody was coming from, and found that was most successful. Again, imagine a 200% lift in engagement, and then a 200% relatively lift in web traffic, and then across our channels, growth in the 20 to 30% up.
Anna:Wow. Those are some pretty impressive numbers. I have to imagine among some of that engagement, and I have to ask this, there were probably some flavors that maybe had your head scratching. Any of those that you're willing to share, not even kind of the crazy outlandish ones. As Randy mentioned, Lay's does that campaign quite a bit on their side, and people submit the most ridiculous things, but even stuff that maybe is good in theory, but just doesn't translate to donut?
Kelly:We've had a lot of people want us to do a bacon glaze, for instance, but if you would imagine, bacon as a liquid flavor isn't as enjoyable as bacon as eating it itself. Imagine that. We'll have other people want us to do smoky lavender or something along those lines. Again, a very unique flavor, but not one necessarily that appeals to the masses, but happened to notice a lot once you introduce maple, everybody's imagination goes so many different directions with maple. Again, maple and the meat flavors. I would say those were the ones that stood out the most.
We do have people that will try to get us ... Again, we were talking purely the glaze. Again, imagine it's just the coating. It's not a filling, but it evoked a lot of other conversations about, "Maybe you should invert putting sprinkles inside your donuts instead of putting them on top of your donuts." Just unique things. Some things were more sensory rather than flavor appeal. You would see those that are true foodies that would be like, "Hey, why don't you create this savory donut that may have a sweetness on the inside too?"
You could see a lot of that, but we do do savory donuts around the world, but as a US flavor, it just doesn't necessarily resonate to the masses again. In select markets, definitely we could do regional donuts that may make sense to try for an area and do a test, but right now, we're doing chocolate glaze in a very isolated part of the country in Virginia. People just love it. Every first Wednesday, they come in, and they'll have chocolate glazed donuts and get dozens of them. They're having a unique experience with that. That's some of the opportunities that fall out of this, and using this crowdsourcing is the chance for our fans to really get the product that they're talking about, the ones that they want. Chocolate, of course, is the flavor that beats all.
Randy:As we're talking, just so you both know, I've canceled my lunch, and I've got someone going out to get me something way more delicious than the planned salad. Honestly, meanwhile, I've been checking out some of the creative work that you do on the channels where people are engaging. You make it look as good as it tastes, which is really exciting. It makes me think you should actually check out one of the sponsors of this podcast for pulling together a lot of that graphic design elements.
It's a company called Lightboard. They're actually dedicated more to B2B marketing. If teams are struggling with flaky freelancers or expensive agencies, that's where Lightboard really comes in. I know, Anna, that the team at Convince and Convert have worked with them over the years and absolutely loved the team there to help them with e-books, with banner ads, logos. I think even your holiday card, which I was very happy to get one of, they've got experienced designers and account managers to help take all of these challenges out of getting your brand out on your channels.
They're super reasonably priced. Highly recommended by the team at Convert, Convince and Convert. As a result, if everyone goes to, you can have a little bit more to learn about and check them out. You can thank us later for sending you over. On that note, we're going to take a short break and hear from some of the other sponsors of the Content Experience Show, and then we'll be right back with Kelly O'Brien.
Anna:Welcome back, everybody. We are here with Kelly O'Brien from Krispy Kreme, head of digital and social media. Kelly, one of the things that is kind of funny is that a lot of people in the content space have this notion that "fun" B2C brands kind of market themselves or there's not necessarily as much sort of planning that needs to happen. It kind of just takes care of itself. It's fun. It's kind of like Skittles. They can kind of just throw stuff around. It works.
But you and I know firsthand that that's not the case. I also have worked at a B2C brand as well. I was just hoping that you could take us through some of the things, some of the challenges that you encounter every day as a "fun B2C brand".
Kelly:All right. Imagine sometimes I'll just go to the smallest, most minimal part of being a fun B2C brand, if you think about we have so many different toppings, so many different flavors, so many different things that we want to capture and/or say. In one instance, for us, we struggle with just the representation of sprinkles. If you think about sprinkles are something very simple.
We even have a sprinkles committee here at Krispy Kreme. We talk about whether the placement of sprinkles, the way that they're portrayed through freelancers or through our agencies, and how that they're represented. It could be everything from the color to the shape to the patterns, the frequency of them, and how many you have on a donut, and how often you talk about it. Sprinkles, which are pretty unique enough, are pretty viral across all countries, across the globe. Our fans react, and they also react to how we refer to them as their name, because I think they're called jimmies in the UK and then also sometimes in Canada.
If you look at it, that's just one small little challenge, but then it's also how people perceive your brand. If you would imagine, again, 365 days of content, a frequency of two to three times a day posting, that's posted over 1,000 different posts that we have to do a day. It's showing people, in some instances, that a balance and finding that balance between our brand's fun, and a fun brand, you want to do great gifs, and you want to do hilarious things, but if it's not in our voice or not where our fan base is, it doesn't stay true to the engagements. It'll fall flat.
We've also noticed that a lot of times with a fun brand, people will use very vivid colors in the background, and take donuts out of their natural environment, being in our shops, or being enjoyed at home, or on a counter, or something along those lines, or on a plate. We've happened to notice that fans don't want to see our donuts hanging from a ceiling as a chandelier of donuts. They would rather see them in the way that they enjoy them, but it doesn't mean that we can't have fun with them and we can't create donut mistletoe, for instance, like we've created around last year in the holidays, or that we can't create donut bouquets, because our fans again, they can see that as something that they would want to eat. Just getting out of Valentines day, we had a ton of fans that were creating those. We've seen others create them for graduations.
It's just where can we with our content take it to the level of bringing people to a unique experience, but where we're not taking it to the extreme experience. Like last year, we did a Power Rangers promotion where we recreated our whole shop, and we did a VR experience. People could walk through one of our Krispy Kreme locations and see all the little Easter eggs of information. Then they also got to see kind of the inverse of that as kind of the destroyed after the Power Rangers had been through. But again, that's taking a unique fan base that are all true Power Ranger loving fans, and then trying to marry them into Krispy Kreme fans. It attracted a lot of Power Ranger enthusiasts, but it necessarily did it attract the most donut-loving fans? No, because it wasn't necessarily drawing into the interest of what they had.
If we would have probably, as we do in many instances, just shown glaze, the donuts being made, the process in which they're made, that's where people really want to see where our brand goes next. It's the innovation behind the donuts. It's the secret to what makes us so unique, and the fact that you can create this pretty universal quality experience across the globe.
Randy:As you talk about across the globe, I'm actually intrigued. I'm going to challenge you a bit. I apologize if we're catching you off guard, but you talked about this campaign you did at the beginning where people got to vote on their favorite flavor, right? I'm Canadian. I always talk about that. We have very different tastes up here in Canada, say, than in the US. I'm sure even within the US, east coasters versus west coasters versus wherever you live may have different flavors that they like or things that they crave at different times of the year. How much are you getting with that global mindset to regionalizing maybe less of the flavors that you do, but more so the content that you're putting out, and the way you engage on a more local basis?
Kelly:That's a very good question, because in some instances, we've been trying to get more universal, more global, rather than localized, to be honest, in some areas. As we look at, say for instance, we know the personalities in the UK, for instance. We know from flavors to the experience of how people enjoy our donuts, we try to show people as they're enjoying them. We have less shops, so we create more less shop environments, but more occasions they're at home or in the commute, because more people are taking them in the tube, or at the office, or they're in another setting. Try not to have too many inside-of-shop kind of experiences there in the UK.
For instance, in India, we have vegan donuts, and our donuts there are the same look and feel, but we have unique flavors. Then showing the events, the occasions, and the experiences that are local to some of the different regions within India, that we want to highlight those the most and highlight what makes, again, sense for that.
Now the most unique in the United States, we got out for Paczki Day, which is a polish holiday surrounding Mardi Gras. We created a unique donut that's for the polish community that is a little bit of an enlarged donut. It's like a larger than life donut that we create that content that's localized in the area, but we don't show it to the rest of the world. We try to create something that's unique and themed just for such. In Texas, we have [cotchkeys 00:23:00], for instance, that are like breaded sausages almost that are again unique to that, but showing the foods that people like that they constantly eat in that area.
Randy:It's interesting. It's an interesting balance that I guess you have to weigh there. Anna, I know we often talk to B2B marketers or more niche focused marketers who are always trying to think more personalized, more individual, and it sounds like at the scale at which a Krispy Kreme is operating and the brand that you want to associate, you have to find that balance between personalized experience and a global experience, as you refer to it.
Kelly:That's right, because the regional or local experiences now come into more of what are we doing in the community. What partners do we have in the community, whether it's that we're partnering with a 5K and we're helping to raise funds in that area, or we're helping to be there. We may not have as many regional donuts that are that different, but what the experiences are that are different. It's our investment in that community. It's helping to be a part of whether it's the SPCA doing an event in our parking lots, or it's a whatever you can imagine, we want to make sure that we are very localized to that. That's where our uniqueness is not necessarily in the product, it's in the experience, and it's in the partnership.
Anna:That is insane, the level of sort of regionalization on top of globalization. Kelly, think you've just given us in the last three minutes, my head has just exploded with how much is going on right now and just how unbelievably unique it is per market that you serve, and just even how different your customers are all over the globe. How on earth, I know you have an amazing team there, but how on earth do you manage to manage all of these different experiences and manage all this content creation and content flow? How do you do it on a day-to-day basis?
Kelly:Imagine that you set the right foundation, first of all, and do the right training, and you empower each of the regions to speak in your voice, to emulate the experiences of the brand, to be immersed in the brand. If you start at the fundamentals first of how do you get everyone kind of in the same on-board experience, then as you stream it out to the rest of the different parts of the world, people start picking up on what makes sense, and what works best, and how it regionally plays out.
We also have a constant eye, and we use a lot of tools too to keep us in check, to understand that we can see the visualization of what's happening across the globe. We also see exactly the content that's posted, and we try to motivate that content. We do audits regularly with each of our markets and our countries to help, again, influence and inspire what's working, what's not working. I would imagine, too, there's things that we could do even better, of course, if we have more time in our day-to-days.
We do look at how do we go with the best foot forward as our brand, and how do we also help us ... We have a lot of people that are passionate, and they turn our brand personal, because it's personal to them, but you have to just make sure it's on point and it's not necessarily personally you, but it's the personal brand in that area. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, it's a lot of teamwork, a lot of help, and a lot of people working closely together. We actually have a pretty small team. Again, a lot of it's through the power of just good education and good kicking off and checking in with our countries and building great relationships.
Randy:That's really interesting, and kudos to your team, because like I said, I'm salivating just looking at all of your social channels. Obviously that's your goal, so you guys are doing a great job. Kelly, if you have a couple more minutes, we're going to wrap up the formal interview here, but keep you around, get to know you a little bit better behind the scenes. We'll be right back on the Content Experience Show.
All right, Kelly. We've got just enough time to get to know you before we fully wrap up the show. I figured we'd go with some lightning round questions. Anna, feel free to jump in, if you've got any. I'm going to start off with a few ones that you probably expect are coming, okay? We'll start off tied to your job, but we'll keep it personal. First of all, chocolate or vanilla donut?
Kelly:Vanilla. Yeah. I like that.
Anna:Glazed or filled?
Kelly:I like glazed.
Randy:All right. Favorite annual event that you get to enjoy personally, but that you have to balance with trying to market to? Valentine's Day, Christmas, there's so many.
Kelly:Yeah, birthday. Birthday. We make birthdays that are not such significant birthdays. The odd numbers, we try to make them as special as possible. I look at that, because it's like we all celebrate birthdays. We all love our birthdays, but we make these odd quirky numbers. Probably the most fun, and try to make them the most fun for fans. That's like the one time I look forward to the most. It's in July.
Randy:Amazing. Okay, cool. Now we're going to go away from donuts, because I'm sure your life is not just about donuts, as much as we all are envisioning that it is now. Are you more of the type of person to watch Netflix or go to the movie theater?
Kelly:I'm more of a Netflix, but if I do go to a theater, I go to art theaters.
Randy:Art theaters? Okay, so what are you watching on Netflix these days?
Kelly:Well, I have been watching ... There's some really random things. Lately I've been seeing just a lot of the Netflix original movies, but I'm gearing back up for the Walking Dead. I'm a huge Walking Dead fan, so I'm just rehashing some of the earlier seasons. I'm getting ready for the start of Walking Dead again. That's been kind of, again, just enjoying that.
Anna:Who's Walking Dead death affected you the most? Spoiler alert, in case anybody hasn't caught up?
Kelly:The one that's to come, or the one that's preempted to come is the future of Carl is the one that makes me probably in the most suspense, but I'll say I was very emotional when Beth died. I thought that was ... Because if you ever see Daryl cry, the world cries. I think for me, it was just one of the things that's like, "Oh." I think it just keeps getting better. I see what fans say too. There's mixed opinion, but I still think it just keeps intensifying. I'm just enjoying it. I necessarily would not be the person that you would see going to every single horror film, and I don't look at it as being like a horror film, even though there's a lot of gore that happens, but it's just uniquely done, and it draws me in, and I never feel like I've missed a moment or a beat.
Randy:See, now I'm surprised that you didn't say Halloween was your favorite holiday, like the dark horror aspect. This is why we do the get to know our guest, because I would have thought of you as the sprinkle person, and now everyone sees that there's a dark side to Kelly too.
Kelly:Well, I design costumes too. I do love Halloween.
Randy:Good. There you go. Kelly O'Brien from Krispy Kreme donuts, thank you so much for joining us today. It was a ton of fun to learn about such a fun brand, about some of the complexities that you have taking it to market. On behalf of Anna Hrach at Convince and Convert, I'm Randy Frisch at Uberflip. This has been the Content Experience Show. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play. Wherever you do find us and you can, leave us feedback. Let us know what you can do. Until next time, we look forward to having you back on the podcast.
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