Pre-Game Chatter

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deadDMwalking's picture
Pre-Game Chatter

This is a place to discuss any questions you have about the rules, your character, etc.

Maybe a place for me to post hype videos.

El Primo
El Primo's picture

can you move the SRD and stuff to this forum? It's showing detached.

El Primo / Joshua

deadDMwalking's picture

Link added.

deadDMwalking's picture

Thanks for introducing Regranaas and trying to follow the rules for making a character. You have a lot of question marks and a few errors. The first thing to correct is Attributes.

Currently you have attributes of 8,8,2,1,0. Forget about the type of attribute for a moment.

The highest attribute value you can buy is 6 points. You can use your floating +1 to raise one of your stats to a 7. If you did that, you could have 7, 6, 2, 2, 1 (8 + 8 + 1 + 1 + 0, 18 points).

In other versions of D&D, people often talk about 'dump stats'. While different characters will get more or less benefit from certain stats, every character uses all of their stats in important ways. With a Strength of 1, you can wield hook swords (weight 1 weapons) and wear leather armor (weight 1 armor), but you wouldn't be able to wear studded leather (weight 2) or use your shortbow (weight 2).

At higher levels you'll be able to use magic to augment physical ability scores, but never mental ability scores.

A starting array of 5, 5, 4, 4, 3 (5, 5, 3, 3, 2; 18 points) may be a more efficient option; you can bump your Agility to a 6 for attributes of 6, 5, 4, 4, 3 - such a character wouldn't have any glaring weaknesses - while they wouldn't be a 'strong' character with a 3 in Strength, they'd be much closer to average.

Either way, once you decide on attribute values that work for you (and are purchasable with the points allotted) that'll help determine things like attack bonus.

Regarding CMB, it is Base Attack Bonus (0) + Str. This is what you use if you try to trip, disarm, or overrun someone. Your Base Attack Bonus is determined by your class and level. A 1st level rogue has a BAB and Base Defense Bonus (BDB) of +0. They'll both increase to +1 at 2nd level.

Your Defense is 10 + Agility Bonus + Armor Bonus + Shield Bonus. Assuming you adjust your attributes to have a +7 Agility and wore Leather Armor (+2 Armor Bonus) your Defense would be 19. Damage Reduction (DR) is mostly determined by your armor (though some class abilities give you additional DR). Leather Armor offers DR 1. That means every time you get hit by a weapon attack, you'll subtract 1 from the damage dealt to you. Ie, if I hit you for 7 points of damage, you'll only take 6 points of damage.

Your Caster Level is 1/2 your level -1 (minimum 0). Your Caster Level will remain 0 until 4th level unless you take a level in a class that provides a bonus to your Caster Level or take a talent that gives you a Caster Level.

When you're ready to choose Skills, you'll choose a number equal to your Intelligence + your level (1). If you have an Intelligence of 6, you'll have a total of 7 skills. Each skill point lets you 'Train' in a skill, giving you a +4 bonus. If you prefer, you can spend two skill points and become 'expert' gaining a +6 bonus. In all cases, you also add your Attribute modifier.

If you are 'trained' in Stealth, you'll get your Agility (+7?) and a skill bonus (+4) for a total of +11. Skills automatically get better as you gain levels. At second level you'll get a +1 bonus to all of your skills, so Stealth will improve from +11 to +12.

For a rogue, I'd recommend that you consider Perception, Stealth, Legerdemain and possibly Literacy. For your additional skills you can choose any that sound fun for your character - Perform, Intimidate, and Gather Information may all be helpful in a 'Gladiatorial Arena' style game.

deadDMwalking's picture


Good job! I've added a stat block to your post - everything you posted is still there in the spoiler blocks.

In terms of special abilities, there are two sources of special abilities - racial abilities and talents.

Racial Abilities
You've chosen Bite Attack, Climb Speed, and Fleet of Foot. Based on your physical description, you might benefit from Slight Stature.

Slight of Stature gives you a +1 Attack, Defense, and +4 on Stealth checks. Obviously, choosing that would mean NOT choosing one of your other selected abilities. But since Fleet of Foot is a Talent, you could forgo it as a Racial Ability, then select it in place of one of your existing Talents.

You've chosen Eidetic Memory and Expert Poisoner as talents.

Eidetic Memory offers benefits with Lore checks (which you have not selected as skills) and with learning spells from scrolls (which you can't benefit from yet). This might be helpful to pick up in a few levels. There are some fun things you can do with it WITHOUT Lore skills or spells. You might benefit from replacing it with Fleet of Foot (if you choose Slight Stature as a racial ability).

Expert Poisoner lets you apply poison in combat. At 1st level, it's hard to afford poison, and if you want to make it yourself you may want to take Alchemy as a skill. Since you know there will be a couple of other players, it's possible that one of them will take the role of supplying you with poison... That said, if you're looking to get some mileage out of combat you might consider two weapon fighting or Improved Feint

As a rogue, you get the most mileage out of sneak attack. When you can surround your opponent with some reliable friends, you can get sneak attack on all of your attacks. Thus, having more attacks makes you scary. You already have a bite attack, so you can potentially get 2 attacks with Sneak Attack per round. Two-Weapon Fighting would let you get a 3rd (at the cost of your Attack of Opportunity). If you go that route, eventually you'd want to get Combat Reflexes and maximize your number of AoOs.

Of course, if you can't rely on your friends to set up sneak attack, Feint is a good way to go. It relies on the skill Bluff, but it allows you to get your extra damage (and improve your odds of hitting) even in situations where's you're one-on-one and can't attack from hiding.

Don't feel like you have to make any changes - I think the fact that there are a lot of rules can make it hard to consider how things combine together. This is lot like building a new deck in Magic: The Gathering. There are some things that become pretty special when you find the pieces that synergize well with them. You'll have some opportunities to make updates as we go and you see some of the rules in action.

deadDMwalking's picture

@Water Witch

Having a cat is absolutely fine! Since you chose Bind Familiar as a talent, you can have a cat as your familiar. That gives you some pretty powerful abilities - including the ability to let your cat deliver a 'burning hands' to your enemies - though it can be a little dangerous to kitty unless she attacks from hiding. Cats are in the bestiary, and with a +18 Stealth, that shouldn't be too hard!

You selected the following attribute values (not in order): 5, 4, 4, 4, 3 (16 points). You have 2 more points to spend. In addition, you get a +1 to any attribute. For two points, you can raise a 4 to a 5; then with a +1 you could have: 6, 5, 4, 4, 3. Generally Intelligence/Will are the most important attributes for Wizards. Will determines how many spells you can cast before you rest; Intelligence determines how hard your spells are to resist and how many you know. Since you've chosen (Fire) as your favored school, and many fire spells are cast on someone, I think I'd recommend putting a 6 in Intelligence and leaving everything else as is. That will make it harder for them to resist (sometimes negating the effect, sometimes taking half damage).

Assuming you went with a 6 Intelligence, you'd know 2 spells for being a Wizard 1, 6 spells for your Intelligence, and 1 additional spell for Favored School for a total of 9 1st level spells. Fire 0-level spells are free - they don't count toward that limit - they come with Favored School at no cost. That'd let you pick all but one of the Level 1 Fire spells. Alternatively, you could learn some 0-level spells from other schools.

It's important to note that you can completely change your spells known every time you gain a level. When you reach 2nd level, you can start learning 2nd level Fire spells, and you'll know 2 more spells for gaining a level of Wizard. But if there are 5 2nd level fire spells you want, you can replace 3 of your 1st level spells with 2nd level spells.

HerKingOwl's picture

Hey I would like to join your game. I’m el primo sister. I need help on creating a character. I want be an owl person warrior. This is my first time playing rpg

Rachel Wallace

deadDMwalking's picture


Glad to have you! With cats and owls in the party, I think El Primo should be worried. As a rat he has a lot of natural enemies!

Since this is your first time playing an RPG don't worry too much about the rules to start with. In a board game it's pretty easy to define all the moves - if the rules don't say you can, you can't. An RPG is more like real-life - if there's something you want to try to do, you can try. As an adventurer you can grab a rope and swing across a chasm, or try to clamber into a narrow cave so a dragon can't eat you. The rules try to be pretty comprehensive so we can figure out if you're strong enough to hold the rope, or skinny enough to slip into a tight space. The rules tell us how likely anything is to work, but you tell us how you want your character to work. Do you want to be strong and brave, or smart and sneaky?

Usually the best way to start making a character is to think of someone from a TV show or movie that you'd like to use as a starting point. It's okay to say 'like Daenerys Targaryen, but an owl-person' - just tell us how being an owl-person makes you different and we can go from there.

The only thing that is really critical is understanding that characters get more powerful over time. If your concept is 'world destroying wizard', that's a high-level concept and while you can get there EVENTUALLY, you're really going to have to start as 'apprentice adept to a world destroying wizard'.

In this game, a 1st-level character is competent, like a trained soldier in the real-world. By 3rd-level, you're highly effective, like a Navy Seal or other elite special force. After 3rd level, you start leaving behind what the 'real world' can do and you can do things that are really magical - like learning how to fly.

So, in a paragraph or two, tell me what you think your character is like?

deadDMwalking's picture

I think we can plan to go ahead and get started with El Primo and Water Witch.

There's a term 'in media res', meaning we'll start with some action, then we'll figure out how we got there. Like a novel, finding out more about the characters will be a little easier when we see what they do.

First thing, confirm that you can access this folder:

The only document there currently is a battlemap. For our in-person game we've found that having a map that everyone can adjust directly is much faster than waiting for the GM to move characters, determine positioning, etc. Assuming you can access the document, there are two icons on the Coliseum map 'R' (Ragranaas) and 'W' (The Witch). Feel free to adjust the colors to suit yourselves.

I'll start the scenario in another thread. There will be two threads - one (IC) which is 'in-character'. When you post to the IC thread you want to describe what your character does or thinks like you might see in a story. For example, you could say 'Ragnaraas sneaks behind the lion statue, taking cover from the cage rising from the center of the coliseum floor'. If you are describing an action that requires a roll, you can include it in the IC post.

The (OoC) thread is 'out-of-character'. This is where El Primo can ask questions and post clarifications if necessary. During combat (which we'll be getting to VERY SOON), you'll generally post your IC actions in the OoC thread. Mostly this is because you don't know what the results of your actions are - sometimes another character can take an action that interrupts what you're doing. A post like 'Ragranaas moves up and swings his hook sword at the giant cat' (along with the attack/damage rolls) would be appropriate. I'll repost that action in the IC thread along with a narration of what happens... It might go like:

The cat crouches back as it prepares to pounce. Ragranaas slides forward from his position of hiding, but the cat's ears rotate immediately to the sound of his approach. Seeing him before he closes it lashes out with razor sharp claws, but they pass harmlessly just over his head. Stepping close, he swings his blade and connects with a solid blow. The thick fur rob the swing of its power, but the cat hisses in pain and anger.

deadDMwalking's picture


Thanks for making a character!

A few things taking them a line at a time.

Your initiative is equal to your Agility (+4).
Your Melee Attack with a Maul is +9 (+5 STR/+3 Proficiency/+1 Base Attack). The damage for a Maul is based on your Strength - 2d10+8. You use it as a 2-handed weapon so you get 1 1/2x your Strength modifier, and a first level Warrior gets an additional +1 bonus to weapon damage.
Your CMB (combat maneuver bonus) is BAB + STR: +6.
Your Base WP and Base VP are 8 because you're a Warrior. You add your Endurance modifier (+5) to each of those. You have 13 WP and 13 VP.
Your Defense is based off your armor and Agility (primarily). You listed a Heavy Shield, but you can't use your maul and wield a shield (at least, not unless you grow a 3rd arm which is totally possible but pretty freaky and I don't think you want to go that route). Half Plate has an armor value of +5 and you're limited to a maximum of +4 Agility (which you have). Your Defense would be 19 (+4 AGI, +5 Armor). You'd also have DR 5. Your full helm gives you +3 fortification, and your Warrior Ability Combat Expertise gives you another +1 for a total of +4. Your CMD is 10 higher than your CMB, so it is 16.

Everything I said above is based on your CURRENT ATTRIBUTES. While you spent exactly 18 points, you get a +1 to spend AFTER you buy abilities. You could raise your Strength to a 6, which would increase your attack roll, damage, CMB, CMD. Or you could increase your Endurance which would increase your hit points. Generally it's better to put the +1 into one of your higher scores. But you could raise a different score if you prefer.

Literacy does cost a skill point, so you have one more trained skill than you ought to. Your bonus to a skill that you've trained is 4 + Ability. So Intimidate (WIL) would be +7 (trained).

Piercing Strikes and Combat Expertise are Special Attacks; they should go next to your Ranged combat number (SA). You don't have Maneuver Training YET - you'll get that at 2nd level.

Every 1st level character starts with 2 Talents. Fleet of Foot and Powerful Build are both available as a Lumari. Hardy is also available, but it isn't actually a talent. It should be a Special Quality (which goes one line down). Blindsense is another special quality (given to you by the talent Blind-Fight). That leaves Blight-Fight and Cleave - those are the two talents you're starting with.

Mana is based on your Wil and Level, should be 4. Action points accumulate a little slower, but you also have 4 to start at 1st level. At second level you'll get one more mana, but you won't get another action point until 3rd level.

Let me know what questions you have. :)