Thursday, May 15, 2014

Why Are People So Mean?

I have an absolutely no evidence to back it up but I have an answer to that question.  To make themselves feel better.

However I would really like to know why people have to be so mean and resort to insults immediately, even when not threatened to begin with.  Perhaps there is more to it that I do not know.  More than just people trying to make themselves feel better.

Why do I ask this you might ask and the answer is simple, and quite obvious as you will see as soon as I mention it.  I was reading the forums.

The thing is that I have been trying to get into PvP more and as per normal for me I make every effort I can to get better.  Not like I will ever really be a good PvPer because my reaction speed is not up to par with top notch reactionary abilties that high level PvP requires but I can be good enough to have some fun with it and enjoy it.  Perhaps that is part of the reason I prefer PvE.  It is scripted so I know what to expect once I see it and I can get ready to respond because I know exactly what is going to happen.

That is the thing however.  Being I might not be the best at reaction or spell selection on the fly in PvP I can learn to be better and handle things better by learning everything I can.  Knowledge is power, to steal a saying.  So not only have I been reading every post I could find and watching every video I find for hunter PvP I have been doing the same for every single class in the game.

The reason I am doing that is because the more in touch I am with the other classes the better I will understand their abilties, how they use them, and more importantly, how they like to handle a hunter.  If I know exactly what they are going to do to take me out I will be in a better position to counter it.  So what I lack in experience and skill I am attempting to make up with in knowledge and hope that the more I play the better I will get at it.  I do believe, in time and with enough practice, my reaction time and skill selection will become faster and as such I will become a better player.

This requires a hell of a lot of reading of course.  If I ever want to get better there is a great deal for me to learn.  I can't just go into PvP saying open with an aimed shot, follow with a chimera and then double kill shot them.  I just do not have the gear to support that being enough to kill anyone and even if I did, there is no half way decent PvPer that would ever let me get that off without screwing me up somewhere along the line.

All this reading however has really turned me off of PvP.  Not only turned me off of it, but has made me want to quit it before I even get any further.  Not that I have thin skin or anything, but do I really want to play with "these" people?

I see people posting asking questions, questions I too would like to see the answers too, and the immediate response is usually something along the lines of "you can not even get 1800 in 2s, you suck", "you are not doing rated battlegrounds, it shouldn't matter to you", "just stick to randoms you noob", "you suck."  Then all those rude remarks are usually followed by rebuttals which are just as rude if not more so like "you have no right to comment you do not even have 10,000 honor kills", "you don't know what you are talking about with your 1500 in threes", and things like that.

Why has no one answered the question?  Really.

For the record, and as anyone that might read here often knows, I am not a PvPer.  I have not really even attempted it seriously since wrath and I wasn't very good back then either but I was bored and looking for something new so I decided to give it a try and learn.  I am not fully PvP geared yet, sill missing a weapon and 2 other pieces and 2 of my PvP pieces are from season 13.  Yes, I am totally a beginner.

Not to mention I am only just rebinding for PvP.  Going back to my wrath PvP roots with over 100 keybinds but I am glad there do not seem to be as many any longer.  To anyone that says that there is more to do now they are wrong, at least in PvP.  I have fewer binds now but more active abilties.

Either way, I am clearly in the learning stage.  Moving binds around as I notice where I would rather it and getting comfortable with them and of course remembering where those rarely used things are bound, like scare beast, come now, who the hell remembers where they bound that or better yet, who the hell remembers that they even have that.  Well, I now remember where it is.  It is just not really in a great place right now because I have not found a better place yet but if I hit - it will cast scare beast now.  Yes, I remember that even when not on the game, and that is what the learning process is all about.  Key binding is only half the battle, remembering where the hell everything is bound is the other.

I am currently 28-23 in 3s with a 1200 rating and I am sure it will get better as me and my team mates start to get some gear.  The other two got their weapons this week, I will next week most likely.  So I am not really what you would call a "good" player but I am most defiantly someone interested in learning and getting better.

And that is where this mean streak seems to start to bother me.  I do not post on forums, never have and never will, because I do not like the people on them, and as you can see there is good reason for that.  But being I read a lot I see how others are answered.

I've seen people in the same boat as me.  Not geared, just having questions and wanting to learn and get better.  And they get blasted because they do not have a PvP history, they do not have a good rating, they do not have all top gear, they do not have the things they should not have yet because they are just beginning.

Why is everyone in the PvP community such an asshole?  Someone comes to them asking for help on how to learn to play better and their first response is to blast the person because they are not good.   Not shit sherlock, that is why he is here asking for help, because he knows he is not good.  Telling him he is not good is like telling someone, hey look, it is day time, while the sun is in the sky.  Thanks for pointing out the obvious.  Now how about trying to help your fellow player?

It is not just the PvP forums mind you, they are just what I was reading lately so they are on the top of my mind and what made me think about it.  The PvE forums are just as bad with the vast number of people that judge someone on their gear and their raid progression.

Let me point out a small fact, you can not judge people on their gear or raid progression because it means nothing.  I could go this weekend and get myself a full 14/14 heroic clear on my rogue this if I wanted to.  I know someone that has been bugging me to trade him a rare S/S pet he has not been able to find but I have and I leveled up to 25. 

He has already offered to bring any character I want through a full clear if I would give it to him.  So if I bought my rogue through there and was 14/14 heroic with heroic gear on my rogue that would mean I am good on my rogue?  Hell no, I suck on my rogue.  Would that mean I am better at my rogue than I am on my hunter?  Hell no, the hunter is the only thing I am even decent at.  You can not judge someone on their raid progressions.  You can only go as far as the 9 or 24 other people you are with and in this case the 24 others I would be with are heroic ready, my rogue is not.

Just like I said of the PvP people I say about the PvE ones.  They are just being mean to make themselves feel better.  Nothing more, at least in my opinion.

I guess the reason it gets more frustrating when reading it on the PvP forums is because I am just starting to learn how to get better at that.  It makes me think that the community as a whole is chasing people away.  I will still do what I am going to do, I will still try to get a little better.  If 1200 is the best I ever do and playing .500 is the best I will ever be, I am content with that, as long as I have fun doing it, but I will try to get better.  If I stop at 1500 or 1800 or even make it higher, so be it.  I will keep going as long as I am enjoying myself.

But what about those poor souls that go to the forums to ask for help?  What if I would go there and say I've been having a horrible time with ferals lately?  Would they just say, well you are only 1200 and do not even have all PvP gear, you suck, just give up now.

How does this help the game, the community, the players?  It doesn't.  Why do people need to be so mean.  Wouldn't it be better for the game over all if people would just give me tips and tricks on how a hunter can get better at dealing with a feral.  Maybe point out I have scare beast, maybe I did not know I had that or even knew what it did.  But no, the community just wants to be mean to those asking questions.

I do not get it, I do not see where this comes from.  I would rather help someone so that means there is now someone else better than to shoot someone down so they might quit and there will be fewer people to play with.  Perhaps it has to do with the fact I am not an ego maniac and I do need to cut others down to make myself feel better.  Actually, I have a different psychological problem all together.  Helping others makes me feel better.  It is one of the reasons I stay in normals trying to help others get their garrosh kill instead of doing heroics, where I should be.

Not saying my actions are any better than theirs but at least I feel I can justify my desire to help others as something that is better for the community and something that makes me feel good about myself in a positive way.    Maybe there is more to them being mean that just having low self esteem and wanting to make themselves feel better and being I do not see it from their angle I don't understand it.  So why are people so mean?


  1. Great subject. You are makes people feel better to belittle others. It is the dark side of the human spirit at its worst. I feel that it's also a huge lack of emotional maturity, a rare trait indeed to find online in any situation, but more so in my experience with mmo's and fps's in general. It appears to be cultivated by the pvp community as a standard to which all the sheep will follow. It's depressing to see people treat people so poorly without just cause. I love pvp. I too am not that great, no oustanding ratings or titles, but I like to think I hold my own and more importantly, I pvp because it's so much fun. One theory I have is that because of high intensity and real time panic/thrill that pvp brings emotions tend to scatter in a million different directions at once. Anyone that can't control their emotions is going to lash out instantly without filtering what comes out of their mouth into the chat box. Prime example- clear signs of losing a random bg and inivetibly and almost guaranteed someone will say "you guys suck". This on our own team mind you. To which many times I've responding with clear and concise logic about how idiotic and anti-productive such a statement is. 90% of the time I'm talking to a brick wall. I try not to let it get to me , but again this coincides with the same overall attitude that has been fostered by the pvp community itself- raw unchecked emotions, lack of maturity, and abuse of power. I do my best not to let it get to me and and just play my best every time. Some things may never change. Human nature can be ugly. /end rant. Fantastic subject , good blog, keep it rolling :)

    1. Thanks.

      I love (sarcasm) those people in battlegrounds that start in with the "we lost" before the battle even started. During the battle I've been in ones that were close, we could win them, but then people start chatting instead of fighting saying how bad everyone sucks and it goes down hill from there.

      I can never understand that train of thought. If they spent half as much energy on killing the opponent as they did on insulting their team mates they would win.

      I never talk in chat for that exact reason. It is a waste of time. I could be doing something to help us win instead of chatting. If I have something to say like "inc LM" then I will, otherwise, keep chat clear. That is my feeling on the matter.

      I too notice, while PvE has jerks too, people are faster to insult others in PvP. Perhaps it is exactly what you said. High tension and they last out faster.

    2. Speaking of "inc LM", you should really pick up BG Defender if you're going to do random BGs. It's great for not having to type.

    3. "... someone will say "you guys suck". ... To which many times I've responding with ..."

      True. I stopped responding to things like that many years ago. In fact, that's how you'll tell an experienced PVPer from a relatively new one - the most an experienced guy will respond with to the "you guys suck" is "okay". :-)

      In terms of addons, I suggest another one as well: BG Targets. The most important thing, apart from enemy specs, is the number of guys on your team who currently have a guy on the enemy team in target - that's useful even in random BGs.

    4. I am not experience, but apparently more adult, if that is the right word for it, because I would say the same thing if I spoke.

      "Sure, I am, now get to the lumber mill".

      Thanks. I will have to check that one out too.

      You know, I hear all this talk of bots in BGs and quite honestly, I don't think I have seen even one yet in all my playing. If I did, I did not notice it.

    5. next time you're in silvershard mines, go up to the top (water). Start fighting someone, and then feign death. If they're a bot, they won't retarget you. That's the place I've most often seen them. Whoever writes the bot programming must tell them all to go Top on mines.

    6. That is weird. And I've seen many a player, inexperienced ones, fall for that FD trick as well. Love when that happens. They think I died and start to run away and I pop back up and blow them away. ~wicked evil grin~

    7. Seen bots a few times. Last time the bot just ran into the cliff walls of AB the whole fight. Well, or maybe someone just put a book on the keyboard and told it to run foward?!

    8. I've seen a lot of bad players, sure, but don't think I have seen those walk into wall people. At least not any time recently.

  2. I don't know how to say this without it sounding pejorative, but to me those actions just remind me of being in middleschool. And maybe highschool to some extent. Even my freshman year of college, I still to some extent thought that was the appropriate way to interact with people. I can remember a few specific incidents that were somewhat eye opening and convinced me to not act like that anymore.

    But knowing I was, at least to some extent, like that as a younger boy makes it easier for me to put up with in others. It can still get pretty frustrating, and makes me largely ignore the pvp forums, or chat in random BGs.

    I'm curious if you've spent much time on the hunter forums. I think people there are a bit nicer, often, but are also super susceptible to trolling. So it can be better, or terrible there.

    I haven't spent much time on arena junkies, I'm curious if their forums are the same. I've on and off gotten memberships to skill cap'ed, and their forums seem really civil. And it's easy to get answers. Of course, you have to pay for them, so that makes sense; since no one (i hope) would want to pay to troll.

    Something I was noticing, as I've been pvping with some people from my raid team lately, is I almost never get frustrated or lose my cool during raid, but in PvP I do a lot. So some of the people thought I must just be miserable or hate PvPing... Generally I'm having a lot of fun though. I'm not exactly sure why it gets me more riled up though.

    Anyhow, I wonder if that happens on the forums as well. People don't know how to express their frustrations in a healthy way, and so it comes out as belittling others.

    I wish I were allowed to just experiment on people... without telling them.. :-P

    1. I've seen the same behavior displayed on AJ, pve forums and the whole mess altogether. It's a certain percentage of the gaming population (not sure how big or small) that has the tendency to want to troll or be nasty or both. It just seems to me that the pvp community is magnified in this respect. Its a harsher environment to play/participate in because of the competitiveness that just so happens to drive pvp in its foundation. A double edged sword. People get wound up in bg's due to variables, get vocal in chat and then take it to the forums. It's contagious and once the trash talking and trolling starts, or the arguing, it almost always spins out of control. Grumpyelf's silence approach to being in randoms is most likely the most effective and least painful way of grinding through, but I find I can't shut myself up sometimes. I don't troll the trollers but I catch myself responding to people trying to appeal to their better common sense. I'm most likely wasting my time but a win is more honor/conquest. Why can't a random bunch of strangers at least try to coordinate for few minutes to achieve a little success? I wont stop trying but I like others am a bit put off by the whole scene in general at times.

    2. I often say to guild mates while on voice chat and doing PvP that 3rd grade recess just started. That means the kiddies are misbehaving again.

      Yes, I have noticed that the hunter community is MUCH better than any of the other communities. And they are also MUCH more susceptible to trolls too.

      The first part I think is because there are a few really good high ranking, high skilled, high respected hunters willing to help and they are vocal which keeps the insults down. How can I insult you for asking a simple question when someone much better than me is not? That is the theory. A few people can make a huge difference, if they are in the position to do so.

      The second part is that hunters have that huntard history and we all feel we always have to defend it. Even me, who does not post, almost made a post in one of the threads when they were talking about PvP and someone was talking about highly skilled hunter. He said something like, you have got to be kidding me, there is no skill in playing a hunter, 3 buttons and win are hard. I so wanted to tell him to go F himself, play a hunter well and then try and say that. But I knew he had to be trolling. No skilled PvPer would ever call what a hunter does in terms of control easy when comparing their abilties to other classes. But we, as hunters can easily fall for that because of the history of huntards.

      Skilled capped is better because you have to pay for it. Jerks either 1) do not want to pay to be jerks or 2) are afraid of wasting their money by getting a ban.

      I am the same. I never lose my cool in PvE but in PvP I often am curing at my screen. Usually when I am spamming a button waiting to get out of a stun a fear or what have you. I still wonder why ever CC in the game is 6 seconds but you can get feared for 20 seconds 3 times in a row. That makes me curse like a sailor on shore leave.

      On the forums it makes less sense for people to act rude. In a BG maybe the heat of the moment gets to you. But on the forums you take your time to answer. Being a jerk on the forums is being a jerk on purpose.

    3. @Mike

      I am silent for a few reasons. One I am not sure what I would say and another is I do not want to get baited into stooping down to their level. Insulting people does seem to be contagious. I've seen some threads start out good enough and then a few insults later the same people that were being nice earlier in the thread are also throwing insults at the person they had been trying to help only a few posts earlier.

      The PvP scene is really off putting, that is for sure. Reading those forums while trying to learn made me wonder, why am I even trying. So I can get insulted later when I get better because I am still not good enough and I suck?

    4. It really is an interesting subject. Not just on the mmo level but on the sociological level as well. I try to do all my own research for my class(s) for the very reason you do. I don't want to get insulted on a forum for asking a pertinent question. I don't want to be degraded or made to feel dumb because I don't know that information and that I am supposed otherwise I'm crap at my class or my rating is junk, etc etc. I can handle myself well enough to know roughly who and what I'm dealing with if I were to get that kind of response but what about people with thinner skin or happen to be a little sensitive to others opinions? It's a major deterrant for them. It takes the fun out and worse. I have friends that absolutely despise pvp for all the reasons that have been discussed so far. To them its a foreign disgusting cesspool of bad natured hell online :). I can see where they're coming from but I also know what they're missing. I think that is why I am vocal at times. I realize it's in vain and I'm not going to make a considerable atmospheric change in the pvp hive mind community but if I can make a little difference in one battle ground every now and then it will make me just a little happier. The forums? Yeah people being jerks and taking time and thought into jerk responses is mind numbing. I never post, not even to respond or be helpful and that's sad. I should be able without fearing of ridicule but that has not been the case so far. Will things ever change or improve? I still have hope...

    5. I believe it is human nature as well, maybe some sort of defense mechanism. The reason we see people jump so quickly to it in MMO is the nature of the internet added to the fact there is competition there. It is odd how someone feels they have to prove, with insults, they are better than someone they are not even competing directly against however.

      I really do not have hope it will ever change. I have no faith in the future of humanity. People seem to embrace the fact they are getting ruder and more aggressive with their insults. Maybe it will some day reach a point where it blows up and gets better but I don't see that ever happening. Sorry to be the pessimist but that is just the way I see it. People, in large groups, will always do the "bad" thing.

  3. Spore Bat. makes you a PVP God!


    PS- I am starting a Priest and loving her :)

    1. Sporebats makes rogues bleed from their anus. And death knights too.

      Disc priests are gods of PvP at low levels and they are fun too.

    2. no, I had my run at pvp long time ago. Made "Sargeant" when titles were still being given out. Was almost right at the next title when I had enough. My granddaughter like the title, so I transfered my Tauren to her account. Over the years, dabbled in pvp, (when I needed it for world events, etc) but I will not do it anymore.

      Anyway, I am StBrigit (Saint Brigit) on Misha, if you ever drop by please do say hello.


    3. I had never heard of the Misha server until I ran into an arena team from there tuesday. Then saw someone in an ordos group from there wednesday and another few in a group on thursday and now you mention it today.

      4 times in 4 days hearing a server I had never heard of before. How odd is that?

      Is it a new server?

    4. hmmm, maybe a couple of years old. Population goes from medium to high every few months. It becamed paired with my regular server - Rexxar, a few months ago.

      I really don't like all the servers being together. Makes for crowded areas. But it also means I can make 11 more toons and have them in my guild. :) so maybe this idea is a win fucking win. Now Bliz needs to figured out how to make all servers together and removed the server from the name and that way, all my toons can join my guild (btw, made lvl 25 last month - all by myself).


    5. I agree, they should group all servers into one mega server and then just limit the amount of people in an area to say 50 and it would be great for the game.

  4. Actually I was "lucky" enough that once one of the PvP "gods of ganking" answered my direct question "why do you do it?". And no surprise, the answer was: "It makes me feel good".

    So here you have at least one "forum witness" to your theory.

    Rauxis, chosen of CAT

    1. I had to laugh when I read that because it is funny to see someone be so blunt and honest about it. But I always believed that it was because people were just trying to make themselves feel better.

      So that brings the question, when we see someone insulting others, should be we bad for them? Think about it. If they have to do that to feel better about themselves, their lives have to really suck.

  5. Yeah, there are many assholes in PVP. Truth be told, although some high-rated players (2300+) are assholes, too, most of them aren't, it's predominantly guys who only aspire to maybe one day have something they can brag about in terms of ratings who are assholes.

    I think your attitude about ratings is exactly correct. There will always be people who play better than you, and there will always be people who play worse than you. If, right now, that means you are somewhere around 1200, so be it! It's OK. It *really* is OK to play winning half of the games and losing the rest, the rating is just the number. It used to be that the rating determined which PVP pieces you could buy, but that's no longer the case, so it's just a number. And the kicker, with time, you *will* find your rating climb up naturally. Just play, pay attention to why you are winning or losing, have fun, try different specs / setups / whatever, and that's it. :-)

    In practical sense, getting to 1400-1500 in 3s in your first real PVP season is *more* than enough. And you have started mid-way through the season, which is enormous, so...

    Keep it up and good luck!

    1. It is the case of breaking others down to lift yourself up. The 2K PvPer telling the 1800 PvPer they suck, the 1800 PvPer telling the 1500 PvPer they suck, and so forth. All so they can feel as if they are better than they really are. I say, if you want to feel better about how you play, how about learning to play better.

      I've been having a lot of issues with targeting the last couple of days. First I was switching targets without actually switching them. Figured it was something with my bindings. So I made some changes and rebound some things. Now I can't target anything so I have to click on the name plates on the side, which is beyond annoying.

      Any tips on targeting?

      I am up to almost 1300 now after an, oddly, bad day, we went 8-12 yesterday and picked up rating points.

    2. If you don't have any bindings for a mousewheel yet, you might try using that (wheel up = target arena guy 1, wheel down = target arena guy 2, wheel click = target arena guy 3). Or, if you have a standard mouse with just two or three buttons, it'd be a good idea to get a mouse with two buttons + wheel + two or three extra buttons on the side, then use these extra buttons for targeting. DPS generally bind targeting enemies, healers generally bind targeting teammates. Some people target using F1-F2-F3, too, but I personally like using wheel up + wheel down + one extra button on mouse.

      Independent of that, use focus. Normally, as a DPS, you put an enemy healer there, then rework some of your macros to, say, work on focus if it exists and on target if it doesn't.

      Also, you should perhaps have separate binds for saving your teammates with Roar of Sacrifice (cunning pets) - you might use manual targeting there, but it is better to just have a macro for at least your healer, and only target yourself and the other DPS manually.

    3. I play with a trackball, so getting one with extra buttons is impossible. Trust me, I have spent many hours looking for one. Not to mention the nature of how they are made the extra buttons are hard to get to. The one I did find with 2 buttons the buttons ended up not helping me because I would have to hit them with the finger I use to move. I move with my mouse, it is why I love a trackball. Faster movement than any mouse could even imagine to give you.

      I have focus bound and always put it on the healer as I am running out. So I got that part down.

      I have mouse overs for things like masters call and that. I could probably make specific macros which would make it better as I have usually been with the same people. Would also prevent me from having to find them to mouse over them or having to target them.

    4. I don't know if this helps but you may want to check to make sure in the keybindings settings that you have "target nearest enemy player" bound to your Tab key, if you tab target. I know I've had issues with that in the past. Hope that helps.

    5. I did check that one, but thanks for mentioning it. I had that issue before myself a few times. I also sometimes mess up binds and then screw up other things I had bound. Oops.

  6. I suspect that PvP communities are particularly prone to this kind of behaviour because the whole point of PvP is to beat other people up. So to many, being friendly and helpful is counter-productive; after all you don't want the other guy to get better than you and beat you! Gotta keep your enemies down at all times.

    (Of course this won't stop those same people from complaining that there aren't enough good players out there and that they always get teamed up with clueless noobs.)

    1. I wish people would realize there is a difference between on the battle field and off. Just because if I see you in PvP I will want to kill you, doesn't mean that if I see you off of it I would not answer a question asked of me.

      You are so right and it is funny. The same people holding others down are the ones that complain there is no one decent to play with. How is that for irony.