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Estradiol and face shape in women



When photographed, 32 participants were not wearing make-up but 27 were.

The first photograph taken (week 1) was used for ratings if the participant had either always worn make-up (n = 27) or always not worn make-up (n = 14) in all the photographs. If there was a combination of no make-up and make-up photographs (n = 18), the first photograph with no make-up was used.

The faces were rated on masculinity-femininity, attractiveness and perceived health. Individual faces were rated by 15 women and 14 men of similar age to the participants. A composite face was formed using the faces of women with the ten highest estradiol levels at the most fecund phase of their menstrual cycle and another composite face was formed using the faces of women with the ten lowest estradiol levels at the most fecund phase of their menstrual cycle. The two composites were rated by 11 women and 10 men of similar age to the participants.

In the individual face ratings, for women without make-up, faces rated as more feminine, more attractive and healthier corresponded to higher estradiol levels for each of the three ratings and tended to correspond to higher progesterone levels for the attractiveness and perceived health ratings. These finds were not found for women wearing make-up. A possible interpretation of these finds is that make-up masks actual masculinity-femininity and attractiveness in women to some extent, which could be definitively concluded in this study if the make-up vs. non make-up comparison involved the same women, but this wasn’t the case. Nevertheless, any cosmetologist knows that make-up is used by women to mask their shortcomings and make themselves better looking. Additionally, the raters described faces with make-up as more feminine, more attractive and healthier, i.e., it is clear why some women use make-up. It should be noted that women wearing make-up when photographed did not differ in age, estradiol levels and progesterone levels from those not wearing make-up.

The two composite faces mentioned above are shown below; click on the image for a larger picture. The composite made from women with the highest estradiol levels (left) was rated as more feminine, more attractive and healthier than the composite made from women with the lowest estradiol levels (right). Indeed, the nature of face shape variation resulting from sex hormones is well-known and the left photo below is clearly seen as more feminine. Additionally, male and female raters similarly rated both the individual faces and the composite faces.

Estradiol and face shape variation in women.

An evaluation of the composites was not done for progesterone levels because there was a strong positive correlation between estradiol and progesterone levels (r = 0.67, p < 0.001).

Ratings of femininity, attractiveness and perceived health were strongly correlated with each other and found to result from a single common underlying factor explaining 84% of the variance in these ratings; this factor was termed the quality factor. A higher quality rating corresponded to higher estradiol levels (r = 0.54, p = 0.002, n = 30) and tended to correspond to higher progesterone levels (r = 0.35, p = 0.058, n = 30). Given the positive correlation between estradiol and progesterone, further analysis revealed that estradiol but not progesterone was the independent predictor of the quality of physical appearance.

The results of this study should not be surprising. At the level of the population, there is bound to be some relation between fecundity/fertility and physical appearance, i.e., this is one of many examples showing that it is naïve to believe that the central tendencies of aesthetic preferences in a population are socially constructed.


M. J. Law Smith, D. I. Perrett, B. C. Jones, R. E. Cornwell, F. R. Moore, D. R. Feinberg, L. G. Boothroyd, S. J. Durrani, M. R. Stirrat, S. Whiten, R. M. Pitman and S. G. Hillier. Facial appearance is a cue to oestrogen levels in women. Proc. R. Soc. B (2005), doi:10.1098/rspb.2005.3296.



Dear Erike,

I would like to know what shape my face is and if this is feminine or masucline. My measurments are;
cheeks from outer corner or eye to other outer corner of eye-14cm
forehead across widest part-15cm
face length-18cm
jawline from one end of the ear measure all the way around to the other end-24cm

I have a square looking hairline so i am assuming my face shape is square. would i be right?

Your measurements are not adequate, but you likely do not have a long face if your face length, including forehead length, is only a little greater than your forehead width. Here is an entry that shows the outline of various face shapes, which should help you figure out your basic face shape. Alternatively, you can email me your photo; it will only be seen by me and I will not be posting it anywhere.

what measurments have i not provided that this information is not adequate enough? my face length is 18cm and my forehead length at widest part is 15 cm. I have a strongish jawline. what face doe this appear to you to be from this information.

Your measurements are inadequate with respect to judging masculinity-femininity, which, going by the context of this entry, is likely more important to you than what your basic face shape is. Your basic face shape appears to be squarish, but square faces and a strong jawline do not by themselves make a woman look masculine. For instance, check out Nikky Case here and here, a woman with a strong jawline and squared face, but she looks feminine. For a given set of very crude measurements, such as the ones that you have provided, one could fit both feminine and masculine faces onto them by making small changes here and there. Hence, I need to see your pictures to make a proper judgment.

She may look feminine but she has a masucline face i.e her facial structure on its own is masucline

With reference to your example of Nicky case, I agree by looking at her overall appearance though she may 'look' feminine one cannot still naturally deviate attention from her masculine features i.e her square face which clearly started at on its own looks masucline and which still stands out when looking at her overall and thus tones down her acceptance of being feminine looking.

Sex hormones have a global effect. If you see a clearly feminine physique, as in Nikky Case, that is accompanied by a masculine-looking face, then it would be inappropriate to call the face masculine because the masculine appearance would be a result of factors other than sex hormones and their receptors, i.e., the term “masculine-looking” would be appropriate but not “masculine.” On the other hand, Nikky Case does not have a masculine-looking face; here are three large examples: Pic1, Pic2, Pic3.

You should consider ancestry. Some Central Europeans have squared faces with a sharp jawline, i.e., Nikky Case just has a different face design compared to the Northern European norm.

Isn't the pont of this website to analyze the origins and dimensions for society's aestheic of feminine beauty?why the urge to confine yourself to the box of---am i feminine? you are you. does it really matter?


My point is from what i see when i stare at nicky case she clearly has a square jaw which immediately makes me think masucline this is just with reference to the facial/jaw structure however considering her other features i.e nose shape, lips, eyes etc...her whole face does have a feminine look but when staring at her jaw alone it clearly says masucline. But yes i agree her face overall is feminine looking. But on what basis do you decide that facial features i.e nose shape, lips etc... are more important with reference to femininety than say facial structure?

Kristin: There is more to this site than what you mention. Some women are interested in how masculine or feminine they are, and as long as I am not overwhelmed by questions such as the other commentator’s, I will answer them.

Anon: You are getting the hang of it...judging how masculine or feminine a woman is should be based on overall appearance, and the overall face shape of Nikky Case is feminine. The point is not deciding what carries more weight, but noting the fact that the processes underlying masculinization-feminization are only partly shaping physical features. Factors other than sex hormones contribute to a masculine or feminine look. Therefore, if in a given person multiple features, distributed over many parts of the body, suggest femininity but few features suggest masculinization, then the appropriate conclusion is femininity and that the masculine-looking elements do not represent masculinization but other factors instead.


I completely understand your arguments and the eprspective you are looking at things from. Im not sure if it is because of my own personal dislike for square shaped faces or if is is because objectively there is something about square shaped faces which just strike me as really manlyish and not femineine at all when i look at them. Even in Nicky case's example her overall face/body "looks" feminine to me when i look at her, her face more due to her addditional feminine looking features i.e nose, lips etc...but i still cannot naturally deviate my attention away from her squarish structred jaw when i look at her which just doesnt appeal to me and lessens her overall attractiveness and her femininity for me even though overall she looks feminine. I think sometimes its not as black and white as it may appear to be. I think sometimes one single masucline feature on a body if it is a strong feature like the facial structure it can reduce the look of femininity subjectively even if objectively the person looks feminine "overall".

Anon: It does look like you don’t like a square face shape and a corresponding sharp jawline. A feature that you don’t like will reduce the appeal of a person whom you otherwise find attractive. However, keep in mind that masculinity-femininity should be evaluated in terms of overall looks.

Yes i think i will have to agree i just dont like square faces i find them very unappealing cos of there masucline look and the strong jawline. In Nicky cases example overall she may look feminine objectively speaking but personally for me her square face keeps reminding me of the masucline word and it really reduces her attractivness when i look at her and this is subjectively so this leads me on to the question of femininity and attractiveness. Does femininity equal attractiveness? or is attractiveness a completely diffeent concept which is unrelated to femininity? Someone may look feminine overall objectively but on a subjective level they may not be found attractive this may be due to the odd masucline looking feature of theres as in nicky case's example which may spoil so to put it the overall look on a subjective level. I mean where do you draw the line for what is feminine and what is attractive and by attractive im relatin to beauty as in what you find desirable is that not more of a subjective thing?

you should post something on people's obsession with feminine equals long hair.

Anon: Femininity does not equal attractiveness in women, but femininity is a very powerful correlate of beauty in women; most people aesthetically prefer somewhat above average femininity in the looks of women. I addressed some quantitative data in this regard in an entry titled the importance of femininity to beauty in women. As far as what is feminine goes, physical variation from masculine to feminine has been well-described; see the “feminine vs. masculine” page. A feminine woman would be on the overall feminine side of the female average for her ethnic group. The minutiae of attractiveness are discussed all over this site (start here), and there are numerous entries under the tag of aesthetics at the blog. I need to add a lot more in this regard. On the other hand, people do not agree 100% about attractiveness; there is individual variation. Please pick an alias other than “Anon,” especially if you plan on commenting here every now and then.

Kristin: Scalp hair length appears to be of little relevance to this site at the time being.

Urrrghh I hate square faces they are just so square and ugly they make a womans afce look like a mans sorry dont mean to offend any square face shaped women out there

*sorry i meant to say "a womans face"

barry why would you make an offensive comment but at the same time claim you dont want to offend anyone. what is the benefit of sharing your negative opinion on the matter? i dont have a square face or strong jawline but i still find it offensive. if you dont want to offend anyone keep your offensive opinions to yourself!

d2 opinions will always be offensive to some one or the other especially if it has any relation to them i apologised in advance because i know some may find it offensive but my intention wasnt to be offensive i was merely stating my opinion

I would like to know

if Audrey Hepburns face is considered femminine? Becasue she had defintley a square jaw,long high bridge nose,bigger forehead,long lips

still regareded as

as one of he most beautiful women in the world. Can you tell me if her face is femminine represents high female hormone levels?

Here are some pics I don't see anything masculine,boyish,or testorterone about it at all.

Celine, a square jaw on its own is masculine but softer feminien features can make the face "look" feminine overall

Andy: A “square jaw” on its own is not masculine. There are plenty of masculine men without a square jawline, though their chin would generally be squared.

Celina: Audrey Hepburn did not look manly. None of her features that you pointed out suggest masculinity by themselves. With respect to masculinity-femininity, her face is best described as slightly toward the masculine side, which is not obvious in a number of her pictures, but she was indeed an attractive woman.

Thanks for that. I never thought Audrey was masculine at all very femminine and very beautiful. Every inch of her face womanly.

Here are some more models actress with faces faces that are either femminine or masculine. I would also like to know if I'm right if they're femminine or masculine.
Ana Beatriz Barros. I always thought she looked very femminine,bu other

people said she looked masculine

Next one is Brigitte Bardot. I think she looks very femminine

Adrina Lima


supermodel, they say asupermodles thye're usually masculine in their features, well for Adriana I think she has very female except

for body.

Now actress Eva Mendes. Who, I consider

quite masculine,androgynous,tranny,intersex looking.

pure man

Celina: See these two pictures of Audrey Hepburn: 1, 2. You should note some masculinization. Brigitte Bardot is feminine. I have addressed the looks of both Ana Beatriz Barros and Adriana Lima; both women are masculinized. The large picture of Adriana you posted is heavily airbrushed, but if you go through her entry within this site, you will note some masculinization. You got it right about Eva Mendez; I couldn’t have described it better.


i did not say having a square jaw means you look mascluine i said a square jaw looks masculine which it does. i find square jawed women unattractive even if they look feminine overall as you keep putting it, but thats my opinion.

erik out of curiosty what is your favourite facial shape i.e which do yuo find most feminine and attractive and which the least feminine and attractive?

whats the masuclanization about audrey hepburn?

Sandy: My favorite face shape in a woman is oval. I do not know whether there is a face shape that I find least attractive. I don’t judge femininity in terms of whether a face is round, square, diamond-shaped, oval, etc.

Compare the two pictures of Audrey Hepburn that I linked to with the three close-ups of Nikky Case in previous comments and see for yourself what was masculine about Audrey. It was a combination of a squarer jaw and higher cheekbones in Audrey.

eva mendes looks like a proper man

erik you said exactly what imeant a squarer jaw procides a masculine look

Andy: There is a difference between square (your usage) and squarer (my usage). It is not a square or squarer face by itself that is relevant, but multiple features that are giving Audrey a more masculine look compared to Nikky, namely a squarer jaw, higher cheekbones and also a narrower face (which I should have mentioned in the previous comment).

yes erik thats exactly what i mean but i only used the example of the face shape i.e square that a squarer face gives a masculine look ofcourse there can be other features combined with this aswell.

erik how important is the nose shape of a woman with respect to this femininity/masculinity issue?I mean does having a larger nose make a face more masucline than having a smaller nose?

Andy: A larger nose will render a more masculine appearance if accompanied by other indicators of masculinization. Masculinization does make the nose larger. The nose, being in the middle of the face, is more important than some other parts of the face in attractiveness judgments.

erik i personally feel that larger noses are more attractive on a face they give character to a face as compared to smaller noses which make a face look empthy and plain but thats my feeling.

erik i personally feel a woman with a larger nose but a more feminine face shape for example an oval is likely to look way more attractive than a woman who has a square face but with a smaller nose and feminine features because i think the facial shape is noticed more overall than the facial features but it is the facial features where i feel lies the attractive element.

erik sometimes one single feature alone can diminish the whole attrcativeness of a woman i.e a very strong dislike for a particular feature i.e a square jaw, or a broad nose or whatever feature sometimes no matter how overall feminine a woman may look that one single feature alone may diminish her whole attractiveness to such an extent that despite how overall feminine she may look she may still look ugly

erike and it is in this sense i.e the comment i left just above that beauty is not a correlate of femininity because sometimes no matter how overall feminine one may look a single feature alone can diminish the attractiveness level.

erik how important is facial beauty compared to body beauty in terms of overall attractiveness? i mean does an exceptrional hourglass figure but a very average looking not beautiful face and vice versa not lessen the appeal of a person?

Of course, unattractive features will diminish overall attractiveness. This does not mean that that there is no strong correlation between femininity and beauty; strong correlation does not imply perfect correlation.

Someone with an ordinary face and great body will obviously look less attractive than someone with a great face and a great body. Facial attractiveness is more important than the attractiveness of many body parts because when people interact with each other, they look mostly at the face and are thus more tuned to it.

erik i do not disagree that there is no strong correlatuion between femininity and beauty i just gave an example in the sense that it can be percieved as not. Also you did not let me know your thoughts on my comments about nose shapes as opposed to face shapes. Do you agree that larger noses make a womans face facially more attractive note im not saying feminine im saying attractive than say a smaller nose as larger noses gives more character and strength to the face. I find a larger noses on a desirable face shape i,e oval looks way better than a masculine face shape i.e square with a smaller nose and feminine features.

sorry erik i meant to write andy (above comment)me and my mate simon are using the same pc and reading your site and by accident i wrote his name as he was using the pc just before me

Erik what is the point to have a fantastic body but a normal face. I agree with you on your discussion of the body physique and the requirnment for a feminine physique in high profile lingere modelling and also the preference for a feminine physique amongst life time hetrosexual men but i just cannot get over the fact that as femine looking as the faces of the women in your attractive womens section may be you will not be able to convince me they are beautiful faces they just simple do not move me. Yeah they have great bodies some of them but i cant agree about the faces and so alot of them i just not percieve as attractive.

Andy/Simon: Below some size, a nose will look worse. Think of an optimal nose size range as far as attractiveness is concerned. Whereas this optimal range will be similar for most people, some people will have different preferences.

Sorry Erik I dont quiet understand what you are saying in response to my comment about the nose please can yuo explain it again.

sorry i meant to write by andy (above comment)

Andy: Sorry, I cannot explain my comment in a better manner. It is also time for you to stop commenting here as Andy or under another alias and start emailing me instead.

erik you cant explain your comment in any better manner yet you can explain everything else. Why is it that you want me to start emailing you? Have i caused any problems?

Andy: What I wrote should be clear. Take an average nose and make it larger, and beyond a point it will look worse. Alternatively, if an average nose is shrinked, beyond a point it will look worse. See this. It is not a good idea for you to repeatedly leave trivial comments and questions under multiple aliases. Leave the comments space for more serious comments. Compile a list of trvial comments and questions that you may have and email them to me.

Im sorry Erik i know they are trivial points/questions however i did not realise that that there was a rule against it so thank you for pointing it out and i will try and email you with any further comments/questions if i have any. Obviously erik everything has its limits thats basic common sense so ofcourse if you take an average nose and make it larger then beyond a point it will look worse but thats not the point i was making, i was just generally stating that larger noses on faces look more attractive as they had character to the face ofcourse coupled with the rest of the right features otherwise a large nose can look worse. Anyway i do apologise erik for all the trivial comments ive posted on here and next time i'll try and come up with something more fanciful and to your taste. Hope the apology is accepted. Ciao!


I believe the more masculine feature of a square jaw is the face shape of most of the world's greatest beauties such as Audrey Hepburn, Angelina Jolie, Shalom Harlow, Eva Herzigova, Michelle Pfeiffer, Natalie Portman to name just a few. These women will age very well because of their bone structure. Maybe having a striking feature like a square jaw on a beautiful woman can highlight the feminine features even more? Maybe the men that find this feature unattractive are insecure with their own lack of masculinity? Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder and I think some people are probably too judgemental and should accept each individual on their personal beauty inside and out.

You may be interested in this site: check out all the models etc. with square jaws, there are a lot of people out there that find this feature attractive and sexy.

Audrey hepburn looked feminine and cute in anyway. I think the small boarded face is the reason she was looked younger than her real age. I find she looks like 14-16 years old girl on the first picture celina post. however I do not especially like her baby character that much I prefer Catherine De neuve, Elizabeth Montgomery, honour blackman, Kim Novack, Natalie Wood, Jean Harlow, Judy Garland, Ewa Aulin and Ingrid Bergman etc.

I find Audrey looks nice on this two pictures.

Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Catherine De neuve, Elizabeth Montgomery, honour blackman, Kim Novack, Natalie Wood, Jean Harlow, Judy Garland, Ewa Aulin and Ingrid Bergman, Malilyn Monroe and Brigitt Bardot, Vivien Leigh, Sophia Loren and Elizabeth Tyler. which one you consider the most feminien, erik? and can u arrange the name from the most feminine to the most masculine?

Superb study, the face shape difference is brought out to a striking degree. A hell of a job on the skin tones, usually the skin is evened out with composite photos. I am sure subtle differences in reflectance were lost but with studies like this skin whiteness will get the attention it merits.

Is it just me or does the less attractive face look slightly paler, could that make a difference?

Make up often gives a slight darkening effect

link | Submitted by Erik on Fri, 05/11/2007 - 11:06.


Correct. Strong correlation does not imply perfect correlation. I do not believe beauty equals perfect correlation with femininity from head to toe. I believe there is a limit and beauty falls short of perfect correlation with femininity. In other words femininity alone is not the deciding factor for ones beauty. As respect to unattractive features if you give and take depending on the number of unattractive features an individual has they will not neccesserily diminish ones overall attractivness for example a single unattractive feature can add to ones overall attractivness by giving one as you noted somewhere else in this website a strange appeal that one may not see in someone else not withstanding these shortcomings.


Well, that would probably not include the infamous Indian nose or their hard, unfeminine and dark colours and facial features, for example. I suppose there is a limit to everything.


''I believe there is a limit and beauty falls short of perfect correlation with femininiy''

Should Read

I believe there is a limit and beauty falls short of perfect correlation with femininity and beauty (parts related specifically to beauty).

I would just LOVE to see Emily's perfect nose. She always picks on noses, its soo weird. Why? I think if you are obsessed with a certain body part there is a reason. Either Emily thinks she has a perfect "Nordic" nose and feels the need to compare it to everyone else's nose or she has a bad nose herself and feels she has to find worse imperfections in other people's noses to make herself feel better about her nose. Either way, she is obsessed. Again, posting photos of Indian noses. She is also obsessed with face shape. She claims every Nordic has a perfect oval face shape when that is far from the truth. She used to pick on Slavs for their "broad" face shapes. For Indians on their noses... For the rest of the world for their dark hair and eye colors, even though Nordics express these tooo.. sigh... when will it stop?

I love those photos of Audrey Heburn Submitted by zonneschijn on Tue, 03/25/2008 - 08:46.
Shes so beautiful


"She claims every Nordic has a perfect oval face shape"

Why can't you write even ONE single comment without making false statements about me? You have the attitude of a troll. "Strawman godis", will be your nickname from now on.

Someone said Catherine Deneuve, why didn't I think of her?

Catherine Deneuve Pictures, Images and Photos

Catherine Deneuve Pictures, Images and Photos

Catherine Deneuve Pictures, Images and Photos


Godis, you're one to point out others' obsessions. OK, sure, if it makes YOU feel better to think that Emily has an ugly nose, than think what you will. Hilarious. Only you would take pleasure in thinking that she absolutely MUST have some hideous facial deformity or something.

Why do you really care what her nose looks like? Oh, that's right, you wanted it broken "by a fist" if I remember correctly. That, by the way, is what obsession sounds like.

so estadiol can help you become more beautiful?

Personally through reading this site, I can't believe some of the stuff posted here. As a photographer, I loathe photographing women with chubby chins and round faces.
I think high cheekbones, a strong jawline(although not a long jaw), full lips, eyes that are not spaced too close together and a unique nose make up a beautiful face.
I don't find none of the women that you listed on this site as attractive good looking in any sense of the world. Most of them look quite plain and homely to me.

Some of the most beautiful women I can think of have those features: Rachel Weisz, Angelina Jolie, Erin O'Connor, Marlene Dietrich, Louise Brooks, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Lucy Lawless, pre-surgery Rose McGowan, Karen Elson, Gong Li, Grace Jones, Alek Wek, Michelle Pfeiffier,young Angelica Huston, younger Annie Lennox (watch the video for "Why" before you comment, her face was flawless), Audrey Hepburn, Brody Dalle and Shirley Manson.
In my opinion, Shirley Manson is quite possibly the most gorgeous woman I have ever seen...
although in all honesty, I could say that I think any of the women in the list I just provided are leagues above the women listed on this site as good looking.

I can't imagine a single woman you listed as attractive going up against the looks of Rachel Weisz and besting her. She is just too beautiful for such ordinary girls to compete against.

im kind of confused. like i get that really chiseled cheekbones and jawlines can look manly and robust, but at the same time getting softness around the jawline and a loss of cheekbone projection is due to aging, not femininity

Lindsay: Surely, “softness” of bone structure due to feminization can be distinguished from the “softness” resulting from loss of bone mass due to aging or “softness” resulting from other factors. There is a correlation structure underlying how shape variables change with feminization—with increasing feminization, change A is likely to be accompanied by change B, change C, etc.—that is not displayed by other causes of “softness” of a given part/many parts. For instance, many men lack chiseled cheekbones and jawlines in spite of being more masculine than the typical woman with chiseled cheekbones and jaw lines. Whether chiseled cheekbones and jaw lines indicate greater masculinization should be assessed by overall looks, which conveniently allow one to assess the correlation structure talked about above.

well i found this pic of an indian girl ina wedding site ...she sure seems to have a square jaw and yet feminine

"Infamous," Emily? Before you, I have never seen anyone else who mentioned it in that context. In my teens, when I studied in the Middle East, I and many Indian students were called something which translated from Arabic meant what "button nose" means in English. Not "big hooked nose." Did you make up in your head along with your delusions. Wait, according to you every other than Swedes have big noses: Asians, Latinas, Germans, Italians, Slavic, Romanian, Finns etc. How come no one else but you noticed Swedes apparently having the smallest nose height in the world?

Indian noses are tiny, soft, slightly broad and upturned much more than Swedes and other Europeans as proven by every scientific study known on Earth, and by any casual observer; it's also a testament that you can only find 3 to 10 photos maximum to support your false agenda.

Indian faces are small, heart-shaped and quite narrow more so than Swedes and other Europeans.

Indian eyes are large and almond-shaped more so than Swedes and other Europeans.

Indian pigmentation is dark, soft; and lovely to me.

Indian features are soft, and to me and many others feminine and beautiful.

Swedish and European features are to me hard, which makes many of them unfeminine. Though many women can have hard features and still be feminine. Hard why? Well, long faces, long large noses which are sharp and projected a lot, eyes that are often to deep set and small and unpronounced, thin lips, all this together = hard, and not beautiful more like "masculine-ly handsome." And these are just the features that a lot of Europeans share in general. If I start on Halstatt Nordids, Keltic Nordids and Faelids, which most Swedes are, the day would never end!

Oh, but see I didn't bash Swedes and Europeans or portray any of their features wrongly or make up false features for them. I didn't spam this thread with hideous unrepresentative Swedes with that a large, hooked nose which would make a Middle-Easterner blush, though I can find 100s by just logging on my facebook account, unlike you who can't even find 25 for my group with hunting like a woman possessed. I just stated facts, which are backed by scientific studies and general observations made by millions including myself, and an opinion.


And you said that just after bashing northern europeans.

You have no clue about how indians look, althoug you are indian. Your perception of their looks is just the indians you came in contact your whole life. You have not travelled through the entire India; you don't know the entire population. Just like Europe, in India you are able to find all sorts of looks. Noses that range from upturned to downward are found in india. For example: punjabibs look nothing like tamils

And you also call people name: faelid, hallstate, etc. which are pretty useless. I'm very aware of those therm and they have no relation with feminine beauty. They are just a old system of phenotype classification. Inside those phenotypes you will find masculine and feminine types. There are manly women everywhere: From Englad to India. It's probably caused by some hormonal disorder os some type of genetic defect.

Many people have the wrong perception about scandinavia women being masculine because most of the scandinavia women in evidence are masculine feminists. Once in scandinavia people change their perception, except the haters, which will always look for the defects.


Those traits don't make a person beautiful. What makes one subject beautiful are well balanced traits. A woman with thin lips can be as beautiful and feminine as a women with full lips.

Okay I see that I'm late to the discussion here, but-
Emily. I do not see the need to bash the looks of Indians out of nowhere. This wasn't, as far as I could tell, a post about ethnicity. You think Swedish girls are the most beautiful? Good! Post pictures of Swedish girls! Compose paeans to their beauty! There is no need to attack other ethnic groups, calling them malformed or primitive or strange or whatever. It's just offensive.
Now, judging by your other posts, I am sure you will say something like "oh maulflanders is just jealous because she's an ugly darkie and covets my genes." Uh, no. This brings me to my other point. You often go beyond simply saying "I find this ethnicity more attractive than this one". You vituperatively attack, and then when someone gets upset (and yes, people like Godis are often obnoxious), it's "oh they're not white. They don't have feelings. The only thing they think about is getting their hands on white genes while telling white people that they're ugly. Also on sacrificing white babies and poisoning wells." I can assure you, Emily, that I am completely Indian; and if there is some such conspiracy, neither I nor anyone I know got the memo. If anything, Asians STRONGLY frown upon inter-racial romantic/sexual mingling.It is true that they gravitate towards whites if they pick someone outside the race, but this is a status issue- a low-status white would not be at all acceptable.
I find this to be a problem because it's more than your preference of appearance. It's this bizarre attack on the character of an entire ethnic/racial group (or, really, groups) which is highly offensive.
See, Emily, if I were to use your logic against you, this is what I would say: "Emily knows deep down that Swedes have (small eyes, thin lips, big feet, thin hair, flat butts, whatever). Therefore, she must criticize women from other racial groups. She sees that white men are picking non-white sexual partners and are fapping to Asians all over the internet, and this makes her so envious that she has to invent a conspiracy theory to bolster her falling ego." But of course, I know that's completely b.s., and it sounds like b.s. when you say it. But if I said it, you would be provoked even if you knew it wasn't true; and it works both ways. I honestly don't care what you think about the looks of non-white women, because I know I'm attractive and that there's no shortage of men from all races who think so. It's your malicious, unnecessarily abrasive talk about non-white appearance and character which I object to, and since you immediately flare up when someone criticizes Nordic women, I think I have the right to do the same.

These are some interesting comments. I wish I had seen these a long time ago. I feel that a strong jaw line is very feminine and attractive and people from all ethnicities are beautiful.


I have a square jaw and somewhat high cheek you have any suggestions on how I can tone down or soften my features? I have even considered surgery but think that may be too extreme and I would be very nervous of the outcome. I also wanted to ask you if having these features may it challenging to photograph well? I'm not photogenic for the most part however, every once in awhile there is a decent shot of me.

I would really appreciate your opinion.



Nicole: If you wanted to soften some of the bony structures of your face, then hair style and makeup are the easy solutions. Tying back your hair in a pony tail is not a good idea. You may part hair in the middle and let it cascade over your cheeks. Or you may part your hair so that it cascades over one side only, the one that looks worse, and the asymmetrical style will prevent the symmetry of your face from being judged well.

This assumes that there are issues that require camouflage, but it may all be in your head. Square jaws have their own admirers:

What is strange to me is that I have always found really strong jaws very beautiful on women. I have a small, soft jaw and always felt that a strong defined one would be much more attractive, because its strong and powerful. For instance, Jessica Alba, Angelina Jolie...seem to flaunt their jaw as an asset.

I'm quite pleased to find that some people prefer a a stronger nose too...I have that!

I think that for some men, if a woman generally has beautiful features...but then one feature that is not feminine/beautiful, then he could be put off. But I think most people look for the overall impression. Therefore, most men would overlook an 'unattractive strong jaw' or 'large nose' provided the woman carries herself in a way that is pleasing to the man, and highlights her 'better points'.I think its largely about how confident you are about your features, and how you present yourself. Even then some men will not be attracted to you due to that one feature, but most men will be totally distracted from that feature by everything else you have going on.

I know this isn't an article about attracting men. But I think its important to know, that all is not doom due to one or two features that are considered unattractive or unfeminine. Also, everyone has different opinions! I never used to like my nose, but my sister wishes she could swap our noses and have mine. And some women may be wanting to soften a strong jaw due to the above article or comments, but i think strong jaws are so beautiful and have a feminine power.

Just because a statistical relationship can be found between biological agents in someone's urine and a social perception of beaty does not mean it is naive to believe there may be socially constructed preferences underlying the aesthetic preferences. Firstly the questions posed as to the judges' sense of the subjects' femininity and health are not aesthetic questions but biological ones, so if one were to take this small study as being at all representative of the larger population, it merely demonstrates biological perceptiveness. As this presentation of teh study does not differentiate between judgements about health, femininity and attractiveness, and indeed having these three categories presented together could be seen to be leading the judges' in what attractiveness actually is, the amorphous concept of attractiveness can more or less be discarded from this study as being contaminated by bad experimental design. Thus all you demonstrate is that young men in the peak of their development are quite good at determining the hormone levels of similar aged women when asked to judge health and femininity. Duh.
As presented here, this study has nothing whatever to say about aesthetics, nothing about what people find attractive, but only that people can detect health and sexiness when directed to in the opposite sex.
THis is one of the many examples that demonstrates that social scientists are completely naive about all subtle philosophical concepts and almost completely naive about the complexity of the human mind in a social situation - the social situation in this case being the experiment.
Bad philosophy, bad experimental design, bad science, leading questions, and over-egging the imporatance of an experiment which is little more than a demonstration of experimental bias and a desire to prove pre-existing prejudices.
Who funds this?

Adrienne: Your statement, “Just because... does not mean it is naive to believe there may be socially constructed preferences underlying the aesthetic preferences,” is arguing against an assumption you make, not the people you are criticizing. My claim was not in reference to just about any beauty preference, but the central tendencies of aesthetic preferences in a population.

If you wanted to discuss the notion of the social construction of these central tendencies, you would need to come up with a few examples and some justification for them, which you have not done, which is not to say that beauty preferences are never socially constructed.

One study is discussed here. There are many others like it. Why don’t you read more of this site?

Are there some pills I can take or something I can do to increase my estradiol and progesterone hormones?

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