Episode 151- Comps, instructing, learning, and sending with Wally Arcidiacono

Wally enjoying the new Niviuk X-One in Bright, Australia

I met Wally Arcidiacono on the comp circuit quite a few years back and have been trying to connect with him for awhile now for a show. Wally is a keen comp pilot, started a paragliding school in Bright, Australia back in 2010 and has turned a passion for flying into a way of life. What kind of headspace should we bring to competitions? How can we play this beautiful game with more aplomb? How should we approach the long game? What can we learn from the masters? Why does the local hero never take the trophy? We get into the beginners mind, why so many pilots are flung into the wild too early, what makes a great instructor, best (and worst!) gear, eliminating distractions, flying psychology and tactics and a lot more. Enjoy!

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Show Notes:
  • All things comps- how to have more fun and get results
  • The mental game
  • Getting left behind can be a good thing
  • Stay positive!
  • Mantras and headspace
  • Play the game, don’t have original ideas
  • Upping the consistency
  • Come second!
  • When do we have this figured out?  Try never.
  • Nurturing others
  • The instructing method

Mentioned in this show:

Matt Beechinor, Nate Scales, Gareth Carter, Kari Ellis, Guy Anderson, Adel Honti



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Speaker 0 (0s): Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem when all the way across the world for this one to talk to my good friend, Wally. Well, and we did it by internet. So I didn't physically go across the world, but a Wally is and instructor and ComPilot down and ahhs and bright, and he's been instructing down there and kinda made it his thing. Wow. Back in 2010, learn down and fly in 2004, which you'll hear about in the show, but he, and I know each other from a lot of comps over all the years, and he's a very accomplished ComPilot and a lot of fun.

And we dug into all kinds of topics on this one comp tactics and strategies and instructing and learning and being a beginner and mindset and much stuff for the year, really going to enjoy it. Something I have not done in a while is the top of the show tip. And I wanted to do it this time because there was an incident and Shalane the very last day of nationals, you know, they had the Mattie senior and just incredible crew out there. And they did the ozone, you know, C class or below comp the week before nationals and chillin and can be pretty feisty and they didn't have a single incident.

So that was awesome. No reserve tosses, no accidents. And then national same thing until the very last day. And I just wanted to talk about what went on there, and this is totally, I didn't see any of this. This is just from what I heard. So this is picking on the pilot at all. It's just, just something to kind of keep in mind. I think it makes for a good tip because from what I understand the pilot launched and had a very small Corvette about 20% of the Wayne.

And I actually heard this on the radio is we were kind of getting ready for the start of above launch. And somebody had said to fly the glider flight of glider, you know, and, and hours flight straight. And just to reminder that on most gliders, these days, you can fly straight on with a lot of the wing gone just by, you know, careful weight shift and maybe a little bit of opposite break. And, you know, this is all things you learn in SIV, which is really important, but you know, maybe it was the stress of being a copper, whatever.

Maybe it wasn't a very good head space, but the pilot flew away from the hill and then totally over-reacted and leaned really hard apparently. And a lot of break on the flying side and spun it back into the hill the opposite way. So just remember, these are things that we're told when we're first learning, but you know, you gotta get away from the hill before you ever do anything. And you can fly a very partially open glider straight without a lot of stress without a lot of work.

And, you know, again, these are things that are better learned and SAV, but in the heat of the moment, you got to remember and get away from the hill and then solve the problem. And from what I understand, this problem was solved totally incorrectly. He just totally over debted and massively over-reacted and you know, the result, wasn't great that he's going to have sounds like pre for recovery, but yeah, you don't want to do that to yourself, but we always, you know, there's a lot of accidents in the sport.

We hate seeing the ones that are so easily preventable. So keep that in mind, fly the glider, get away from the hill before you do anything. Let's get into this show with Wally. I can't say his last name. I actually asked it in the, in the, and the first bit of the show. So I'll let him answer that one, but please enjoy this really fun talk and a good buddy of mine. Well, cheers, Wally, this is fun. I haven't seen you in awhile, man.

And who've all been, and COVID lockdown for way too long.

Speaker 1 (4m 10s): I think the last time I saw it was the world cup down there and maybe it was at the Nordic. I can't remember which one was more recent, but

Speaker 2 (4m 17s): I want to say

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): And Macedonia. Yeah. And that was cool. I like, I want to get back. There

Speaker 2 (4m 24s): Was fun. Yeah, definitely. When I go back then, and it was a fun place to race one day. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (4m 29s): It was, it was a kind of remote reminded me of roll the Neo. You know, you got the mountains on each side and in the valley and you got to get from one to one side together and, and I really enjoyed it there.

Speaker 2 (4m 41s): I think in any rice, good to have that option and not just stay on this region and burn up and down this Ridge, like a mad person. But you know, you can go by the range and go by the flats. You can, you can pick into

Speaker 1 (4m 55s): The gaggles would split it up and you'd be like, oh, are they doing better than us what's happening? And that was really a critical and pick them out and the distance and yeah. And my first question is easy. One. How do you say your last name?

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): Where are you guys from? Where's the, what's the word and that dad's, dad's Italian and immigrated here and the early sixties with a lot of other people and Australia and lady and I'm still here.

Speaker 1 (5m 30s): Great. Yeah. Good. Excellent. It's good to see you, man. You got a hat on, this is reverse. Usually it's cold here and one there, but I guess you guys are coming out of winter.

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): We are, we are slowly starting to warm up, but it's, it's nice to see the sun again. So what is the case at the end of winter sun and get warm in here? Not today and it's witness and miserable.

Speaker 1 (5m 52s): Do you guys fly all winter there or is it as you just write that

Speaker 2 (5m 55s): Off, do the, we tend to get low pressure and we tend to dominate. So, you know, Fortnite, you'll only get two or three flyable days, but they're special in that you're flying with smell and the mountains, the back they're bitterly cold, as you'd expect, it's more and more of a social affair where you arrive at launch at 10 and you Swan around in the sunshine for a few hours and, and take off for a half hour thermic flight.

And then the day's done and you go home at three. So it's more social than anything else, but it's still good to do.

Speaker 1 (6m 30s): Yeah. And feather time. And there's some good skin and your parts too. And how many people, but, and as you're and what do you consider yourself a mountain or flatlands pilot, do you get out to and, and, you know, send it with the flies or do you tend to stay in the mountain?

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Tend to stay in the mountains. So like mountains always have, I've always been a mountains, go out. Mountains are not quite as mountainous as the rest of the world's mountains, but there still are mountains. Never for very fond of them. And once in a blue moon, I'll go out and have a bashing and flats. Again, it's usually more of a social thing. I'll go with a group of buddies and we'll do a five or six day safari around the place. Yeah. But most of the time it's in the flattened and I live so close to the, the main flying side around here, it's literally a kilometer away.

So I live at the base and we literally lived through it and made some landing paddock. So when it's, when it's that close, it's hard to, it's hard to justify a four-hour drive. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 30s): And we're going to talk about your school and instructing and comps and stuff. We were just chatting. We had some problems with the audio there and they, last time I thought the last time I saw you was the world cup, but you're right. It was at the Nordic open. Wasn't it out? And yeah. Estonia.

Speaker 2 (7m 43s): Yeah. Y my buddy Alex, and I went out for literally four weeks of back-to-back racing and here, where you rocked up for the Nordics, which is our last week. And we'd done three weeks before that. Yeah. It was pretty intense. That was, it was good fun though, but yeah. Good place. Macedonia fun place in my heart.

Speaker 1 (8m 6s): Super. I really liked the flying and it was, and it was quite similar to the role, the Neo more on it was, it was more spicy and, and a good way, but it, you know, it had the, at the flats and it had the mountains kind of ringed and on both sides and you could, the gaggle would often split in and really know it was, are we, or did we make the right move or do they make the right moves? Cool. I like that a lot. And it's cool.

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): And yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of seeing tasks with, with decisions. So a huge fan of that, I feel, I feel like a lot of the time we could task creating, you know, there's decisions to be made. And there's things to think about. We thought our setting, it's just follow the leader and, and, and then it comes not a decision on cross country flying and, and racing. It's more just how fast can you push the bar and how good are in the super gaggle of a hundred people. And it is, it is rising, but it's just a lot.

I like to have to think about it. That's, that's the fun part official

Speaker 1 (9m 4s): And fly and give, and give us the one page resume of your how'd you get into all this and how did you become an instructor? And yeah. Is this, is this how you're making your living these days?

Speaker 2 (9m 16s): Yeah. So, so I started to fly in 2004. My uncle had learned to fly for years before I did, and yeah, got into sport, threw him, and he just made an offhanded comment one day and I'm like, you've got a bit of time and you've got an uncle that doesn't use these gloves very much. Maybe you should get your license. So I did didn't really think much of it at the time. And, and, and, you know, it was, it was excuse the cliche, but it was a decision that changed my life. Not that I knew and then flew for a few years, intermittently and, and probably a little dangerously to start with in terms of without much supervision or on sites and the main line with where, you know, and I saw her up in Southern Queensland, 2000 kilometers from here, and then I'll move to Victoria and six months after our road and found bright about 12 months, 18 months later.

Okay. And my first trip to bright was like, wow, they have, this place is special. They've been coming back ever since. And then 10, 12 years ago and moved here, it's scale. It's not just my life, it's my life and that as well. So there,

Speaker 1 (10m 32s): And do love it. And I moved there too fly. And then you created the school or what did you move there with the intention of, okay, well, I'm going to make this my life.

Speaker 2 (10m 42s): No. So I moved, I moved here to fly. I'd been coming back for summer's and then fly and my little tail off all summer long while I was a student. And then I arrived here to live here and a friend of mine, another instructor, he gave me a job as a, as a town and bunny. So I did that for a year. And then I decided to actually, I think, I think I would wanna teach people this and, and I'd come from a background and education, outdoor education.

So understanding and managing risk with the outdoor part and then anagogy and pedagogy and teaching kids and adults. And yeah, so it was a very natural progression to go into instruction in taking, and yeah, that was 2010. And I started my apprenticeship without pawn paragliding, and slowly worked, worked through the instructor qualifications and yeah.

And it was, he was and knew very early on once I started instructing like, yeah, this is, this is pretty fun. Lucky. I'm not, I'm not making myself rich, but it's a good lifestyle. I'm outside doing that. And I love so

Speaker 1 (11m 56s): Does it, you know, you often hear that, you know, the best way to kill your passion for something is to make it your business doesn't sound like it's done that to you at all. Do you, do you, do you find that phrase, your, your love of just XC and just sending and being a pilot?

Speaker 2 (12m 13s): Mmm, yes and no. And, and this is something that I've had to grapple with over the last, especially for five years and less so in the last one or two, but it was two or three years and there were, yes, I think it did, didn't kill the passion, but it, it made me, it made me question well and truly end. And I had to come up with a few strategies to ensure that their passion was, you know, reignited and, and feel, and they are pretty comfortable about it. You know, I know I'm about to come into the season and I know there's a lot of work ahead and, and also really excited about all the other things.

And I don't, I don't get that excited about going to work, but I do enjoy it. So yeah, there's been, there's been a lot of little, little lessons on the way in order to maintain that enthusiasm because it's, you know, that's, to me that was actually really sad. That was about three years ago. I was like, oh, I feel like I'm not enjoying this as much as I used to. And as I said, I've come out of that. And now, but yeah, that was, it was, it was a sad moment for me, like, oh, maybe I've ever done it. And I've seen a lot of instructors who get to that point where they just started, that I'd fly themselves.

They just don't go out and a solo. I got it. And go and fly a town and me cause there's money involved and there'll be on the hill, but then they just do not fly a glider for themselves ever. And it's, and I saw that and I'm never going to put things in motion to make sure I keep, keep this enthusiasm up. And yeah. And when did you get into comps? Did my first company in 2011. Yeah. Rocked up and thought, and I know it's going on here and pretty good and always humbled, so humbled as we all our and Fs come back

Speaker 1 (13m 59s): And then as we are and our 20th comp sometimes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 6s): It's, it's interesting watching the super final unfold a couple of weeks ago and looked at a couple of big names that are usually always at the top of list and, and then looked at some of their social media posts afterwards. And I think exactly that you do cops long enough. You don't, you don't beat yourself up about it. Sometimes you're on game and your head's and the right place and everything's right. And all the ducks line up. And sometimes you're just not it's it's maybe has nothing to do with your gear or how you're flying for the week.

It might just be your head, you know, it's 10,000 elements to a camp and it's so easy to get something wrong. And I think at the end of the comp, as long as you don't beat yourself up, you know, you're destroying everything and see, and at the world and just go, well, there'll be one next year or next week, move on with it.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): Yeah. I, I, in some ways I kind of cursed myself with comps because I had some really early luck. It was complete luck. I thought saying, oh gosh, that must be really good at this. But I had a couple of comps that went really well right off the bat. And, and then I realized, you know, no matter what you got to put in the time and you gotta put in the hours too, and all the comps and got so many comps and it's just, you know, yeah. And I feel like now the, my approach to it it's much help as I, I don't care. I realized, and you see it with, like you said, you see with the guys that are so good and then, you know, everybody blows it and that's just partying.

Speaker 2 (15m 35s): And the, and the nature of a cop too, is it doesn't necessarily have to be seven out of seven tasks that you blow you and you need a blow one and two. And all of a sudden you drop a long way to, and the rankings not forgiving

Speaker 1 (15m 47s): And help that a lot. But even then, it's still, you know, it's a funny game thoroughly. I love

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): The funny guy and he'd beat the beautiful and those, and it really is a beautiful game. And I

Speaker 1 (15m 57s): Liked the, you know, I'm doing a Turkey air next week for the, for the world cup. And, you know, since the X ops, I haven't really been that motivated to fly. And I like it because it's just there for you, you got the rides, you got the policy, you know, you're, you're there to fly. It's just, they make it also easy and you don't have to decide how much, you know, and just go fly. So

Speaker 2 (16m 20s): There's a, there's a lot to be said for that. And, you know, and mentioned before that, I live very close to a flying side and that's, that's, that's convenient. Yes. But when you live this close to a flying site and you have your local competition here, I always do worse. And all the other comps you're distracted, you've got, you know, there's, there's other things going on and you tied up with the comp in some way, and it's when you go, you know, you leave home, you go somewhere different.

As you say, that's your focus, you're there to fly. You remove everything else from your mind. And that's what you do. And I've got a really cool inbound cat here, right? Yeah. Oh, cool. Hello, Katie. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (17m 5s): I had a really cool flight. I'm on a week, a little over a week ago with two of my mentors, legends, Nate scale's and MAPI share. And we call it a farmer. And, and, you know, they've been in the game since forever. And, you know, we, we had this beautiful, big XC flight is seven hours and it was really cool and it was pretty deep and we landed and I said, you know what, guys, it's so interesting that, you know, we, we ended up taking quite a deep line at the end of the day that worked. It was good. And we had clouds that help us out.

And, but in the beginning of the day, we took this line and we always take, and, and, and I said, you know, if we've been in a camp and a bunch of Europeans, a bunch of people came out here and Kriegel comes out here. He would've crushed us today. And you know why? Because we did what we always do because we know it works, but we don't, when we weren't flying the terrain, you weren't flying, you know, cause to fly the train, you got to go way deeper, really leaving the roads here. But it was, it's what you would do. If you just came here. If you came here and you took off, you would show us how to fly this place.

You know what I mean? Cause it's, this is our place. We know how to do it, but we don't really know how to do it. Cause, cause you know, it's I, and I think that it happens a lot and cops you'd go to Macedonia either Tony thing and that, and somebody fresh just crushes it because they, they look at it with open eyes

Speaker 2 (18m 22s): And they don't. Yeah. They're not, they're not predetermined. And there's no, as you say, a predetermined route of all, we go here because that's what we do. There's obviously, and that in the broad open over the years where a visiting pilot comes and does something just like, that makes total sense. Why, why haven't we been doing that for years? But that's just, that's just how they fly and, and, and the way the local's and think, oh, we know how to fly this area. This that's

Speaker 1 (18m 45s): Very interesting. Yeah. There's, there's deeper psychology going on there and you're, you're in Oz. It's a long way from other places to go to comps. Is, is that typically how you do it? Like what do you and Alex did? You'll kinda just go, okay, we'll do it. You're just gonna take a month and bang out a few cars. Otherwise it's got to get really expensive to

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): Yeah. Yeah. It is that, that is about the only way to do it. Unfortunately we, we say we straight and people are literally, and you can not leave the country. It's very hard to leave the country at moment or no nicknames did get out for the XR, but you know, there's all the problems with getting home. Yeah. Okay. This year, aside in recent years, the side, and that's typically what people do we go out for? Especially you go to Europe, new, spend two months floating around and you put as many costs as you can.

And that time, because to go and just to, to jump over the border to do a quick comp is just not financially viable. That's too far. And you do need to put a few comps in your calendar to go. And then, you know, that, that gets tricky too. Especially if you're traveling with families and not run set,

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): You learned in all your comp experience that you could share in terms of results, getting they're getting better. You know what you've learned over the years, that adds up to just having more fun,

Speaker 2 (20m 18s): Having more fun.

Speaker 1 (20m 19s): Cause it's all well and good as, and at the same, you know what results don't matter. I know that we all do have egos. It is more fun to do well. And you know, but I, like I said, like we were talking about, you know, I don't kick my helmet anymore. You know, when I bomb out, it's like a big deal I used to. But you know, now I really, I can't honestly say I pretty much don't care, but pretty much not totally.

Speaker 2 (20m 44s): Yeah, no, I don't know. It'd be the same before you started pulling a comp would be. I don't think, I don't think I'd beat myself too much. What, what has helped in that regard? I think number one is sheer quantity. When you've already done one or two, then yes, you do care very much when you do them for a long time and you know, that will be another cold and that's probably, that's probably a big part of it. And you know, that there'll be another one. So you leave this one behind and you go again. The other thing for me was two things.

One, not necessarily looking at a result for more satisfaction, not my satisfaction, but boy, my confirmation that I've done. All right. I remember that. I remember the, there was a point where I was right on the verge of actually starting to figure some things out with comes. And, and I say that because I know I still haven't figured things out. Yes. I feel like sometimes I have. And then in five, 10 comms time, I realized, I didn't know much back then. So anyway, I was, I was a bit calm where I was just on the verge of figuring things out and I'd been Leonard Lauder to fly, which was an a and B.

And it was flying in there and say at times for whatever go flying and didn't do particularly well in the results. But I remember reflecting on that experience and seeing actually I was doing quite well up until this mistake on that day. And then, you know, you look at the next day and when I was leading the group for all of that and then started up here and then, okay. So I took the positives out of it and you know, definitely found the negatives and when, and this is where I stuffed up and this is why I stuffed up and this is the decision I made for sure, but looked at all the positives.

And when I was doing a lot of good things here, and I guess I just tell myself, be patient, you're doing a lot of good things. I think get rid of a couple of bad things. They, and all of a sudden, you know, you'll, you'll have a little bit more success with it. The other thing that, the other lesson that was very big in my mind when I think of staff staff and I've got left behind, you've dropped a gaggle and two don't know when it was, but that, that understanding that knowledge of it's actually pretty easy to catch up.

So I remember originally it was like, oh, I've made a mistake and I've got left behind. And the group is so far in front that I'm never going to catch them. And then somewhere in there and actually make a cup of good decision and be like, cool, I'm rolling into gold with everybody else. And what happened? So that, that realization that when you think you're a long way behind you, very often not, it really is only a couple of minutes. And if that next group gets stuck for a couple of minutes, that you've caught themselves and you call them and it's yeah, there was a, it was just a realization that sometimes you're not as far back as you think you are, do

Speaker 1 (23m 31s): You have any kind of, you know, Headspace you try to get in or any kind of mantras when you're flying or any kind of, you know, you, you have a good call and you go, okay, how do I repeat that? How do I, you know, how do I take that? The next one? Is there anything, any kind of, I dunno, say, so you do it again. And he rolled the dice.

Speaker 2 (23m 52s): There's a, there's a few things for me that and work well, first, first thing is I need to have all my personal affairs in order before I start to, and the business phone offer and give it to Claire and my partner and, and she deals with it for the duration of the competition and make sure or my, you know, I don't have any bills to pay or anything like that. There's, there's no life worries as I go into the car. And I usually spend a few hours going afternoon in the days, leading up, just relaxing and focusing on me to get myself calm.

And I mentioned this before, before we started recording that going from, from instruction to competition is a tricky thing. And that's why I take that time to give myself time just to, to get myself into flying head space. And then on, on task days, I've got a very simple mantra that, that I run through my head and that is start well, no, no original thoughts and make goal.

And, and I know that it sounds simple started well, like if your, if you're in the start group and again, you don't have to be the highest, highest person right at the edge, even if you're in the group, you started your day. Well with everybody, if you starting low behind all of a sudden, you've got to catch up from, from the beginning. The no original thoughts actually came from, from Greg for this, that kind of from Gareth Carter, Carlos, mostly guys too.

And this was, you know, we're, we're racing as a group. You don't need to, from the first glide of the day, go out and win the day from the first GLAAD tie, the guy and 80% of the race. And then the last 20% you've you make your move. And so no, no original ideas, original ideas discovered was pretty much that, you know, you've got this great idea Tim's and into the task, but you're just gonna run down there and smoke everybody. No, no stop check your thinking there for a second.

So, and I just, just, you know, putting on a handbrake in your mind, not, not to fly slow, but just to, to recheck your original ideas. And this is going to be amazing, but no, no, no. Just, just thinking about that and then the, and, and the MC goal, and that's, that's the classic one. Everyone knows that one, but you know, sometimes you need to dictate.

Speaker 1 (26m 20s): I think that that one's one that I lost the plot on for a while. And, and, and, you know, you just get in this racing headset and push and push and make a move. And remember you make a move and land before ESS your points suck. You got to get the gun, got to get the goal, you know, and just kind of make that work. And, you know, you see it, I see this with the consistency thing, you know, that they're really consistent pilots, you know, I mean, Luke just won three tasks in the super finals.

So I guess it doesn't always work, but you don't have to win tasks.

Speaker 2 (26m 58s): No, you don't. No, that's, that's actually, one of my mantras has come second and you know, and I mean that, like, if I'm trying to win tasks, which I don't do very often, I'm not, I'm not a task. We're not occasionally put one off, but more, my attitude of come second is if your trying to win tasks, then maybe, maybe you might be pushing it to take too many risks. So my mantra comes second and I'll hide one and it comes second to high by when it, for sure. But my mantra of come second is take enough of a risk to, to be consistent or rephrase that, take enough of a risk to do well, but don't be too conservative that you're going to come 15 and every day.

So it comes back and come back and come back. And that's what I involved. And usually, usually the person that comes first is different. Right, right.

Speaker 1 (27m 54s): Do you, do you pay attention to who's? Who do you, do you let, who you are with and the gaggle influence you over, maybe somebody else or has everyone just, they're all just gliders giving you information?

Speaker 2 (28m 10s): No, I do take a very key notes on whose, who, and I've actually got a pretty good memory and remembering who's who as well, part of that is not, I guess, towards the end of the competition, then who's who, in terms of where I need to place for the day. That's important. But that to me is the last task of a competition. And I need to be in front of this person. Therefore, I'll take a bit more risk. For example, the, the who's who for most of the flying is more of a what's this person like, is this, is this someone that I want to go out with?

The, just the tour bus, is this person going to help me use this person, someone that is just a bit too impetuous and, and goes to hard and burn up and puts himself on the ground easily, someone that I can utilize their, their psychology, their, the way they race, the way they think against them. You know, if I push a little harder, now I'm going to watch this person push themselves very, very hard to be in front of me. And now they're going to be down there in front of me helping me out. So I use them a little bit that way.

And, and I'm still learning there, but I do take notice of her too. Yes and no. And if I don't know them just to go out and the sky, but if I do know that, and I know, and especially knowing your personality, then yes. And my certainly take notice of who that person is so I can utilize their, their mindset for my advantage. Sounds funny.

Speaker 1 (29m 39s): What, what's the best tip you've ever gotten from, you know, the Ozzy squad. I know you guys have the kind of team thing or Carrie or Alex or anybody that you've raised with. Can you think of a tip? That's really been kind of a, whoa that helped

Speaker 2 (29m 54s): The best. I guess a bit of advice that I got given was from guy and his son is having a chat to him. One open, two pills of gem from, from him, pills of wisdom. I should say the first one was just that, that Al's saying have a memory of a goldfish and letting go, what has just happened. We, we all make bad mistakes and bad decisions while we're writing and it's to easy.

And I remember this early on for me, it was, you know, you'd make that bad decision. And then the rest of the day I'd be in this negative head space where then you'd, you'd make a bad decision and then you'd throw a hail Mary to try and make it up. And then you'd throw another hail Mary and another one. And all of a sudden you'd find yourself on the ground. So his, his, you know, and it was more than just that sentence, but we had a good chat about it, you know, just learn to let that go in and move on. And, and yeah, easier said than done, you know, especially when there are emotions involved with it.

But yeah, so that's, that was a big part of it. Just, just learning to go. Yep. I stuffed up, I acknowledge that this is the emotional and feeling that has associated with it and let it go. What's my next job. And another person that was helpful in that was Dale hall and met her in Macedonia as well. And, and very simple saying one thing at a time.

And I guess they go hand in hand. So we've stuffed up, we've made a mistake. We figured out what it was. We've let our emotions go on that, that particular thing. And then going to the Dells thinking, what next, what do I need to do now? I need to get high. I need to catch up great. That's all I need to worry about. And I worry about the rest of the race and just do that one thing. And then once I've done that one thing, then I'll move on to the next one thing. It's not easy to compartmentalize them whole race in one.

Speaker 1 (32m 0s): Yeah, I, I, and I've said this before and the show, but I read a ton of sports, psychology books going into this XL, just trying to work on the whole mental game more than in the past. And that you see the same things in these books over and over and over again. And, and one of those is very much, you're going to make mistakes. You got to take the mistake and throw it in the trash, you know, like you said, learn from it and get rid of it. You know, you think about the best athletes in the world and baseball, basketball, and, you know, they miss all the time.

They got hung up on that. They would just go to hell. You know, I mean, if you're a 300 batting, if you've got a 300 batting average, and then which means you get a hit three out of 10 times, you're world-class, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't sound that good. That doesn't, it doesn't sound that good. No, it does it, but yeah. And I think, yeah, and we should, we should all follow more of a Dells advice. She's really good and all that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I think that that is, is a big one because you know, the best, the best bomb out.

Speaker 2 (33m 4s): And it's not, it's not an easy thing to teach oneself either. It really is, and

Speaker 1 (33m 11s): It's still working on it. And I guess, yes. And we always will be for sure. Favorite place to go fly. If you could leave. I know that co has been really tough with, and in Oz go out and do good. But if you could go anywhere right now and go, go to a copper, just go and see, where would you go?

Speaker 2 (33m 31s): Probably the, probably the, the place that I like racing the most. And, and, and partly because I know I'm no good at it there. And so then you just kinda mind like call me and, and Slovenia the first time I race there and flew there and I fell in love with it. And it's just a magical, magical valley. So much happens. And so much happens fast there. And I remember, I remember the first time I went there, I was doing a cereal cup and a long time ago. And I thought the normal thing you did was you fly along and you take it though.

You go onto the next one. Didn't, didn't realize till much later, like no people don't stop. Oh,

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): You don't stop and start to Slovenia. You just keep going.

Speaker 2 (34m 16s): But that, that this just a beautiful playground, the sign Andre and his offices with the similar and that it's, you know, it's small, it's compact. Everything's, you know, we're not, you're not trying to go hundreds and hundreds of kilometers or miles. You just, you know, everything's small and compact it's speeds of rain or ricing. And, and those places to me, I really enjoy it because you can, you can explore, you can play, even if you're not racing there and to just, or today, today's the day that we're gonna fly the back room. And so we go out and find the back rich and

Speaker 1 (34m 48s): Sylvania, I think. And I'll ask for that and people, and it's so beautiful, the soca rivers, just for time, you fly over and you just go out and take some drugs today or whatever, and it's so beautiful and

Speaker 2 (35m 3s): Vivid than it usually. Isn't it just amazing.

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): Yeah. I never, I haven't raised her up well, and they're a bit, but at a race and I'd love to, I think that'd be really cool. And

Speaker 2 (35m 11s): The, and the, the Slovenians, so you obviously like Slovenians for a very small nation. They do pretty well. And the world stage and their nation somewhere, and the top 10 of that and certain, and I think Tommy, and one of the reasons for that, and then, and then just down the road, and this is one of the reasons it's such a good place for, for competitions. You know, they're funny the legs and that there was a very place, very special place. And it really is, you know, the rest of the album is in torrential rain, and there's a task happening.

And I get to go and spend a week somewhere and go race. And with a group of buddies onsite here, take me there any day.

Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Mm mm. You, you've made this, your lifestyle living, your livelihood does Free flight. What does it make your life better or worse when it comes to relationship other things? I know, you know, Mark Watts, when I had him on the show, I said, you know, what would you do differently? If you could rewind the clock I give up fucking paragliding. He was, he was very adamant, Adam, that, that that's what he would have done differently.

But if you're in and he kind of scale in between those two extremes,

Speaker 2 (36m 29s): No, I don't, I don't think I could pitch my life without it such a big part of my identity. I couldn't couldn't live without it. So, and, and, and, and to be honest, and that worries me sometimes because, you know, I've seen a few incidents and accidents and I've had friends that are, you know, not doing so well because of internet access. And it does worry me, what would take, what would it take for me to stop this sport? And that that's a worrying thought. It's probably the thing that keeps me safe for the time as well, and healthy step back from the edge of unnecessary risk.

But couldn't, couldn't imagine life without it. Why my wife often says, and I'm getting a bit grumpy, suck radio, get your gear, get in the car, going up the hill. You need to go and get your feet off the ground. SP I think she's right. She's dead right now. She used to be, she used to be a pilot, but science and an accident got, got lifelong body issues with feet and back. And so, and that's, it's close to high and it's always there, but she she's, she's lovely woman and she's super understanding.

And she knows that, and it's pretty important to me. And she supports them. And, you know, sometimes she's a bit sad and that she hasn't for any more, but there's other things in life there really are. So

Speaker 1 (37m 56s): Do you, this is an impossible question. I hate this question, but we're kind of on this theme. Y you kind of answered it a little bit there, but I'm making you think even harder about it. Why do you fly? And you, could you, could you put it into, can you articulate that,

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): I guess it's changed over the years now. Yes. Yes. It is a little bit part of my identity while he, the guy that flies a lot of people like, oh, you're the guy that flies. Yeah. That's, that's not the reason I fly. That's, that's sort of probably what everyone else thinks. I think when I was new, it was that unbridled freedom. Like I can go anywhere now. Now I think it's the thing that I love the most is learning process and the, and the journey.

I remember, I remember windows 200 hours, I thought, geez. And I'll do this pretty well. And then when I got 500 and went, holy crap, I knew nothing back then. Right. And then we've got two, a thousand. I went and did nothing back then. And so, you know, and I I'm, I'm in love with that, that the ever changing nature of it all. And, and just moving on with that then, and I guess, and I don't even for myself as Salin and instructor, I guess I am an instructor in, and that is my job. But to, to then to that and see that, and others that's, that's actually pretty nice and neat as well,

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Switch over to instructing. Do, do you, do you follow a particular system, you know, like API or that kind of thing, or is it, or is Australia work in Australia?

Speaker 2 (39m 35s): So, yeah, in Australia, we, we operate all our endorsements and training under sports' aviation Federation, Australia and south, all the qualifications go through them. So we send the paperwork off and they process it, looking at the requirements outside, especially the license, the license course, the license qualification called BJ two. I would say that is absolute bare minimum for somebody to get safely into the sport. And not that we say this directly to our clients, but it really is.

You now have enough knowledge to go out and hopefully not hurt yourself. That's what we're after. And you know, that, that first a hundred hours, 200 hours, that's just super critical. You don't know, you don't know when you knew. And so many people either leave the sport really early, cause they don't have the support around and don't have a bit of understanding or they scare themselves because flying and doing something, they didn't even know an issue until the thing came up.

But yeah, so everything, everything runs under Safa and, and yeah, the, the way you run a course with a school is subjective to that individual. We do the requirements. Plus some other things that we think is important and necessary. It's written, it's really hard to tell what other schools are doing. I've got gone and worked with a few different schools. And I think that's, as an instructor, that's really important to go and work with another school because they'll give you ideas of things that, you know, and an analogy to explain pitch control, whatever that can be really important and also things that you go.

Hmm. Yeah. I don't actually like the way they do that. Good to know. So any, any should be critically reflective enough to look at their own, their own processes and adapt and change them based on what other people are doing and the best practices at the time. And we're still, we're still, there's still a lot of instructors that I started teaching 30 years ago and haven't changed much in 30 years and that's a worry, that's a huge worry, you know, the sports trains to law for why are we still teaching, you know, something that's that all.

And I think being up to date with your finger on the pulse of the sport and especially the equipment is, is pretty damn important.

Speaker 1 (42m 13s): W what, what, you kind of talked about it there a little bit, but what makes a good instructor and what, who, what kind of personality and what kind of person is, is built for it?

Speaker 2 (42m 25s): I think if we all reflect on how schooling and think about the teachers that were the good teachers, I think there's a common theme and that is that they care. I know that sounds, that sounds very simple, but, and instructed that cares both for the safety and for the understanding of the student is going to, I develop a good relationship with that student and then B that student's more likely to respond to instruction and, and those sorts of things, and the whole learning process is going to be better.

So, and the instructor that cares, so that's not driven by financial means and is not burned out there. And, and I think that's, that's an important thing. I don't think one can be an instructor for 40 years without getting to somewhere in there and going, well, I've just had enough of this. And, you know, it's just another Groundhog day of the same over and over again. So yeah, I think having different, different elements within the instruction, you know, so you're doing some tandems doing some coaching.

You're doing some training of new students doing a lot is quite important because you've, you know, you're keeping yourself fresh and, and you thinking about it doing the same thing over and over and over and over again is one you're going to get complacent. And two years, your not everyone has a lack of compassion, but you know, if you're doing the same thing over and over again, and then you've done it 55 times, the students don't once they're going to pick up that, person's really not into this.

And, and that's going to translate as not good instruction coming across, because it doesn't seem personal. And doesn't, you know, the individual feels like they're not cared for. Yeah. Hope that answers your question a little bit. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (44m 23s): Totally. And all these years of instructing 11, I think now you get all these beginners through and you said, you know what? This is something I've grappled with a lot. And when I think about new people getting in, you know, you don't know what you don't know, you don't know at 500 hours, you don't know what the house, and there's still, there's all these stages we go through where I'm constantly going. Good. God, I'm stupid. I can't believe, I didn't know that, you know, I'm constantly learning. And, but what should specifically beginners avoid wonder?

What are some of the things, if you could just pack up all that knowledge you've got in your head all these years, put it in somebody's and realize that's too many things. But if there's, there's a couple of big ones that you see beginners make that they should just steer clear.

Speaker 2 (45m 11s): Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I guess going in it alone is by far the biggest one. And I say that from experience, I went and alone and to start with, so the wrong way to go about it really was so not, not going at it alone, using the collective knowledge of the community to, to aid you in your progression. This is where it gets tricky. This is where it gets tricky though, because, you know, you can say, you go and talk to an experienced pilot, but a lot of pilots want to just explain things for the sake of explaining things.

So what I'd say is, do your research go and find the parts that actually are experienced and will give you good advice for your level, and then go and talk to them, opposed to just go and talk to someone that has a qualification that looks like it's fancy. And how would it beginner? No, issue. Really. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a really hard question. And, and I do see that, but I'm a little critical when I see someone who I don't think is like in Australia, we have safety officers who do exactly that when, when a club and someone has a safety officer, and I think whoa, that person has a safety officer and that that's bad news because, you know, being a good pilot.

And I use my inverted commas, I think, as there being a good pilot doesn't necessarily mean means you fly well great. But it doesn't necessarily mean you understand conditions and the emotions that a new pilots going through. So once and conditions for, and new pilot scene and a lot of good pilots say, oh, we've totally fine. It's great conditions. It's great conditions, but for them, but its not for new pilots. So yeah. And it's a, it's a hard question to answer because you know, how, how did does in a new pilot find that correct person and really hard and, and, and, and with a lot of good intentions from more experienced pilots, sometimes those good intentions go, why would, because I just haven't thought about it for, for someone who's at that point in their flying career, just finished their course, their costs and we're going to deal with strong thermals and the middle of the day.

But yeah, I don't think I've quite answered your question there, but it's, it is, it's a tough one. It's a really horrible and, and I think this is, this is probably the, if, if a nation has a certain way of dealing with this, they're not really like to find that out because you know, the recipe in a lot of the world I feel is people get their license. And then the first 50, a hundred hours, they're blundering around the dark trying to figure things out and, and trying to figure out who to listen to and, and getting conflict, conflicting bits of information from two experienced pilots and then trying to figure that out.

And so yeah, to, you know, th th the result is they either leave the sport because they don't know what's going on, or they have a scare or an accident. Sorry. So it's, it's a, it's a tough one. It's a really tough one.

Speaker 1 (48m 27s): The, it was actually in Macedonia. We had dinner one night with the sweet, and there was a whole bunch of them there because it was the Nordic cup, of course. And they were telling me that their method is it's really club-based. So if you come up through the club and you get to a certain level and you get pretty good, then the club basically pays you to go on a trip to Annecy, you know, or somewhere that's pretty close, but you know, kind of a flying vacation for a week.

And you're kind of the de defacto instructor, you know, so you get to go, you're getting this free trip. So you're vested in kind of working because you're getting this great trip to Annecy, but you're, you're there to mentor, not necessarily instruct those are, they're kind of different, the students, the new people in the club. And so it's this rolling thing you role through and you're, and it's expected of you. If you come up through the club, then you're expected to, because it is different.

Like you said, you know, there is a point where, okay, I can't be your instructor anymore. You're not paying me anymore. And I have to instruct that, you know, but we need mentors, don't we? And one of the questions I get all the time is, well, how do you find mentors? You know, if you're not kind of an extrovert and out there in the community and, and making it happen, it can be hard to get.

Speaker 2 (49m 55s): Had you told him? Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that sounds like, that sounds like it's, it's a cultural thing within the organization it's expected from when you start, that you are going to, once you've got to a certain level, you will mentor other pilots. I think that's, as long as that culture is instilled in it, and take many years, let's say Australia adopted that you would take a number of years to get that

Speaker 1 (50m 21s): While he will guide talks about, you know, the, the flow process and both yeah. You know, a haunted, you know, chick sent me highs flow and also flow sports. So kayaking and mountain bike riding, and, you know, any kind of thing where there's no not climbing, you know, flow sport. So paragliding is very much a flow sport. Are there, I imagine you being in the mountains there in and bright, you partake in other things other than flying.

Do you have any other sports that you feel like you've really contributed to your learning this sport? And cause we'll always talks about, you know, when he has friends that come from climbing, cause he's such a climber that, that get into it. He's always quite a bit more worried about them as opposed to a kayaker or a surf and, you know, cause they're, they, they deal with energy in different ways.

Speaker 2 (51m 15s): Yeah. Yeah, sure. I guess you talked about the, literally the you're working with and environment yes. And gravity, that kind of way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51m 27s): And you know, and, and just, you know, whereas climbing's just, just, you know, moves and technical and strengthen ours is really using the energy of the universe to pass along.

Speaker 2 (51m 39s): Yeah. Yep. It, so yeah, I do, I do get into lots of different things actually in the, in the mountains. It's a beautiful thing about Brian and his areas is quite playground things like, and mountain biking can, and I've got a good buddy who used to race mountain bikes quite seriously and, and twice paragliders and a very high level as well. And he has said that too, that, you know, when he goes out on the trials for a mountain bike ride, he's actually doing a bit of flight training in that, you know, he tries to make everything as smooth as possible.

And, and he relates that to especially gliding the gliding part of it. Again, you know, thermal things, a little bit different, cause we're adjusting as we go, but the, the gliding and the getting the flow and staying on the, the lifting line. So he, he, when he goes for a ride, he feels, it's a, it's a training exercise for feeling that flow and going on, remember Madison together and saying as well. And we, we as pilots, we do our best flying and we're not thinking about it too much.

And I know when, when people are brand new, it's probably part of the reason they can only fly for a couple of hours at a time is because they are rationally thinking about absolutely everything. And after some time when you don't need to think about, you know, your, your pitching of your wing, you just, you just do it automatically. And it's, you know, that's comes autonomous in your mind. And all of a sudden, you're not thinking about all the minor things. You're just, you're, you know, using your subconscious, your Brian's just functioning in your going exactly going with the flow.

I'm pretty sure that's the reason Philippe called his, his company flight boarders, because exactly that, that beautiful feeling you get when, when you feel like you're in timing with the natural environment, be it a water and water down a river or, or the clouds in the sky. Yeah. It's, it's not something that comes quickly. And I think that comes once you have a good body of skills and knowledge and especially flying your aircraft as well.

So the skills part, and, and, and then yeah, you turn your mind off a little bit and just do the subconscious thing. And sometimes you're doing, and to bring yourself into present and be rational about what's going on. But yeah, that's probably easier said than done. And we, we as humans probably consciously put ourselves in the conscious arena because that's what we feel we're in control of. But I do, I do think that's wise advice from will to, you know, to, to learn, learn the flow with what, what you feeling and going on and around you

Speaker 1 (54m 32s): Do you not to take us to a dark place at all, but you know, you've, you've, as all of us have, if we've been in the sport for a long time, you mentioned Alex and I, and your gal and, you know, some, some bad accidents that you've witnessed, seen and been a part of. How do you approach risk at this point and your career? How do you, how do you grapple with, you know, that never ending gravity?

Speaker 2 (54m 60s): Yep. Yeah, it's a tough one. It's, it's tough because it is still a risk sport. Anyone that says that it's not a risk sport is not being truthful. It's over, I guess, I guess now, or has taken a big step back from the edge of risk. I didn't ever think I was standing right on the, on the edge of the precipice there, but, or no, now that I don't need to take a big risk in order to fly big lines or do flights that I'm really quite proud of.

I don't feel like I need to take those risks. I feel like you got to wait for the conditions to do it so you can't force it. And I guess that's probably it and you're not forcing it and you're not, you're not, there's sort of, no, I'm going to do this flight because today's my only day off. So I'm going to do it. And you're just like, well, no, that's not gonna happen today. Clouds aren't high enough winds in the wrong direction too, too gusty, whatever, not going to do it today. So, you know, stepping back from the edge, I don't think that's easy when people and you, because you know, they're keen, they're really eager.

They w they've got almost something to prove. Like, I want to feel like I'm good at this sport. Therefore I need to, you know, get in the air as much as possible, and I'm going to take this risk. And, and it's a terrible thing, but you fly for long enough. You do see incidents and accidents. It is. And it's a terrible thing because it saddens everyone, even if it's, even if it's just, you know, a bad learning and a sprained ankle, and that's, that's a great outcome.

I mean, and the nicest way possible, you never want to see people get hurt. And sometimes that's really, especially, you know, going back to instruction and mentoring, that's really hard to portray to somebody who's new that no, just, just chill out. Like you don't need to be flying in these conditions. It's beyond your pay grade. And, and, you know, there's, there's going to be another day that is flyable in the future, or guarantee you that the mountains will still be here. Just, just relax. And, and I think everyone does come to that conclusion eventually, but no one wants to see instance and accidents.

And, and unfortunately it does happen. And, and especially when you think that was totally unavoidable, that's, that's really disheartening. And, and, you know, and that hurts my soul to see people do silly, silly stuff, purely on a need to prove myself, or I need to, you know, fly in these conditions because this is my only day off this week and those sorts of things. And that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (57m 55s): Trying to turn to make, and those will, he is a Saint for this trying to make the day fit your, that your and desires. Yeah. And instead of the other way around. Yeah. And it's, if it's not what you think it is and, and just go swimming. Yeah. You're going to be fine. And you just go swimming a while and listen to this. And some kind of fun ones here best and worst wing best

Speaker 2 (58m 26s): And worst wing, best wing look and flying the X one at the moment. And it is beautiful. Yeah. It is a bit of a wing or have been flying on any other fly. And well, as my own lot as Jen and New York really flew the boom for a couple of years there. And, and although I did like it, as soon as I went, went for the burn for leopard, then to the X one, the X one was just like, oh, this is such good performance, but without the workload.

So that, that was really nice. I guess, the wing that as I was going through my progression that, that I absolutely fell in love with was the Arctic too. That struck a chord with me at the time. I loved it. I've still got in the shed there. I just can't get rid of it. Worst wedding, or that's a tough one. Yeah. Look, I'd say the worst wing is not something that I'll fly and a lot, but it's probably, I dunno, I dunno if you wanna, you want to publish this gap.

I really, I really disliked. I really disliked know the wings. Yeah. You know, and, and, and not that they're bad wings, I just want, and very lifeless. I find them very boring and just, you know, like a glider that has a bit of pitch and roll and tells me something. And I find, no, the wings, as I said, I'd not that I'll fly and them in great quantities every time. And it's like, and that's pretty boring. And that in saying that I'm sure there is a market for people who just want a really quite boring wing.

So, you know, it's, it's a subjective answer. So, you know, I'm not, you're not, it just doesn't work for me. So

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 16s): Yes. Objective question, actually, one person poorest other Brittany and I, we all love and hate different things. And there's been, there's been some mnemonic wings along the way that, you know, other people couldn't stand and walk in it super funny. What's your favorite piece of equipment and just going to be any goggles, can you beat something you don't even fly with? What's your favorite? You know, the thing that you just, oh, this makes my point so much better.

Speaker 2 (1h 0m 49s): I think we've got to just say and fly master really

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 54s): Fly master. Yeah. We have, we have to use them for the, for the X apps and they do a good job with laptops. Yeah. I don't, I've never liked that device. Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (1h 1m 5s): Okay. I like it because it's reliable. Like I've had my Flowmaster, but 10 years I had one of the first navs that came out after the, after the . And it's my go to, I know the sound. I know how it works. It's reliable as anything had, and that 12 years still works. That's like my flight deck 60, 30.

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 35s): I know, I love it. I still love it, but to see it and, and everybody that uses for my master loves them. It's just, it's never, never worked for me. And I think it's a great diet. And

Speaker 2 (1h 1m 46s): The other thing I've been reading recently on forums is the XC tracer and the tracer tracer now, and the opposite, I cannot get in sync with it. I've actually, I'm happy with it now. And I've dampened it on a scale of zero to 10 or Devin it to eight to make. And

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 10s): So you've probably heard about that. I send my tone and every, and I didn't, they weren't mine and it was another, and I don't remember who it was. It was a world cup pilot, cause I was having the same trouble and I took it out of the box. I just thought, whoa, what are you doing to me? And I couldn't core for the law. I just couldn't find a core. I was so used to a more averager, you know, and I couldn't work. And, you know, there are people like I had Alex Robey on the show and he uses both he'll use fly master and the XC tracer without a dampen.

And it can kind of tune his year and I guess to both, but it doesn't sound and simple to me. I like things simple. So, but this, yeah. I have tone settings for the XC tracer that I have given out to at this point, hundreds of people and it's really nice. It, it, it, they were actually built to kind of match. It's actually built a little match. The flight, the flight takes 60, 30, but that's the same as the

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 3s): Fly master. Yeah. Okay. I'd be very interested in that. Not

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 7s): That much damage. I have mine a two and a half, and I think it's more of that. And combination with the other tone settings, I think pretty good.

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 15s): It's a whole package. Then it needs to go together to try it and test it. That's that's good.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 22s): I'll send them to you, buddy. Thanks. They do a great to converse with you and have a chat it's been too long and I hope it's not going to be that much longer. I've got a couple clients down there and ahhs and they're talking about, and I don't think wherever you get out of your, till 20, 23, I hope it lightens up for you guys and you get to travel. We all travel and it's very

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 42s): Closed door down here at the moment. And the cats that usually go racing overseas every year or every couple of years, we are eating we're seriously itching. What do you do? Has your

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 59s): Local comp scene been pretty good? Has that been okay? Or has that been good? Okay.

Speaker 2 (1h 4m 6s): Again, so yes and no. So last year we had to downgrade one from and nationals to essentially a state level and that lost a few people because of that. But the trend over the last three to four years is, is people want to race and people want to get out there and do that. Yeah. Which, which is good for it. You know, I feel like a lot of people in Australia have, and Andy competition sentiment. So, but you know, in recent years I think that's being adored a bit and people want to get out there and, and try something different and go racing.

And, and there's a lot of new pilots coming onto our racing scene, which is good. And we don't look like dads, army kicking around. And

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 60s): They're not my words, Gavin and yeah. Psych the race with the, again, at some point here, I'm sure it'll happen and I'm happy to follow the squad down there and, and learn from you guys. And thanks for sharing all this man. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (1h 5m 18s): Thanks for having me on no feel. I feel blessed. I feel like there's a lot of big names that have been listening to a lot of podcasts over a long time and feel very humbled that they give us for me to be on it,

Speaker 1 (1h 5m 32s): Mate. Good excuse to reach out. And you've got a really keen community down there and we've got an Australia. And so it'd be really psyched to hear your voice. Well, thanks buddy. I appreciate it. No worries. No worries.

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