 Lance000 wrote: some bloke wrote: I agree with the scotsman - I would not expect a rogue to be able to perform reckless attacks any more than I would expect a barbarian to be able to perform sneak attacks, or a fighter to perform stunning monk attacks. It's an important part of the class system that these are class locked - if you want to learn them, you need to learn some of that class. nothing to stop a level 0 character being a level 0 rogue and a level 0 barbarian. Or a level 0 monk and a level 0 fighter. You can get access to a lot of mixed abilities, but I agree that you shouldn't have them all as options - otherwise the fighter, whose specialty is his trick moves and combat prowess, might as well be a wizard - all the same moves, but now also fireball. I think the idea is that a sorcerer, who relies on magic for fighting, would know which end of a sword is the sharp one, but would not know fencing moves like feints, and would lack the confidence for reckless attacks, the guile for sneak attacks, the skill for stunning strikes. he can stab someone, but that's the extent of his skill. And this is when you stop considering characters people and start considering them diablo or wow classes. The dread pirate roberts can disarm, and parry, and dodge, and wrestle, and is he a rogue or a fighter? Hes a person. And a person with a weapon can use it. This is the issue with class based games. Your putting people into boxes, which means you need to specialize the boxes, which then strips logical options from the other boxes. Why shouldn't the barbarian be able to parry and dodge and disarm? You know conan? The archetype from which the barbarian exists? Hes known for stealth, sneak attacks, parrys, disarms, feints, and rages. So what the hell? At least in 0rd he could take feats. In 0th its not even a fighter thing. Its a fighter SUB CLASS thing. The op talked about fighting in interesting ways. So why is it only one subclass that gets the stock standard interesting melee options? Automatically Appended Next Post: And another example. Fahferd and the grey mouser. Fritz liebers classics. Fahf is a barbarian singer and the grey mouser is a rogueish wizards apentice who learned enough about magic to know to stay away from it (but could still do it). They are both theives. They both sneak attack. And they both have done mock battles with parry dodges feints and gak to make money as they travel around. Arguably they are both bards to some extent. So what? How do you make those characters? Both have supernatual entites as patrons... So warlocks too? Faf also became a prophet for issac of the jug, a minor god. So what? 