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re: The guidelines state that "wherever possible, enrollment is the goal," yet make it clear that enrollment is only possible if the parents agree to sign and uphold a "Covenant of Trust" in which they pledge to "support the moral and social doctrine of the Catholic Church." <<<
How in the world do they manage to keep the doors open?
I mean what with all the irregular couples involved: divorced-remarried, LGBTQ, contracepting and, if modern sociological data are indicative, both hetero- & homo-erotic behaviors that are considered s#d%my --- well, all of them, too! But, wait, I'm being ridiculous, the auto-eroticism, alone, dwarfs all the other grave moral lapses.
Seriously, this is beyond absurd. Just do a "find & replace" on these types of guidelines & commentaries and, wherever you see "LGBTQ," replace it with "contracepting."
No, all of us in irregular situations are NOT suffering from poor formation or invincible ignorance. Instead, we are exculpable because you are wRong!
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Michael Brooks' most obnoxious line is that gays don't have sex, they have sodomy. So does anyone who does good foreplay. Pederasty is patterned behavior which is ingrained by rape. Gays self identify when still virginal. Half the clergy is gay and the other half is asexual. It is the asexuals that have made Catholic sexual teaching irrelevant.
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Here we have a protected minority maliciously and publicly mocking another person for their religious beliefs. Anyone else see the epic hypocrisy in that? We all know that if the driver was a Muslim imam, JJ would NEVER say anything derogatory about him, in spite of the fact that Islam is radically misogynistic and homophobic. Scratching my head.
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I am not sure what a Mass Outing of Gay Priests on a Sunday would accomplish.
The bishop(s) would just suspend or remove the priests who publicly out themselves. And all that would hurt are the people who would be deprived of their priestly ministry. The bishops do not give a sh#7 about their priests or their people - there are very few I would consider even remotely connected to the Good Shepherd.
Honestly, I do not see the macho/heterosexual brawny culture that Fr Reese references in the article. Quick the contrary, bishops running around with their boy-toy sycophants. Talk about a gay culture. Of course all that sexual energy is tied up into the exercise (sometimes brutal) of power and an affinity for raising large sums of money for their special projects.
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Some say the Q stands for Questioning, others say the Q stands for Queer. I've even heard homosexuals themselves say the Q stands fro Queer, so don't hate on me just for telling it like it is.
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(1/3)
-1967, Pierre E. Trudeau, Minister of Justice of Canada introduced the Bill Omnibus to abolish discriminatory laws on homosexual acts between consenting adults;
-1969, Canada; decriminalization of homosexuality /a first in North America;
-1977, “Discrimination based on sexual orientation” has been prohibited in Québec (Parti Québécois);
with that change, Québec became the first jurisdiction larger than a city or county to prohibit anti-gay discrimination in North America;
-June 1992, like Québec and British Columbia, Ontario declared unconstitutional laws and common Law provisions which provide that marriage can only unite people of the opposite sex. These courts have decided that a definition of marriage that excludes the union between persons of the same sex violates article 15 of the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms, which prohibits discrimination based on gender;
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Wholeheartedly supported his gay family member too, and not with reparative therapy.
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Good points. Maybe we should put somebody new on every bill each year. I only brought up Jenner because I can't surf for 5 minutes without seeing something about transgender bathrooms. Who's the most famous transgender woman in history . . . Caitlyn Jenner. Woman of the Year, ESPN called her courageous. Recognizable. Symbolic of a historical event in our lifetime. Nuff said.
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Interesting poll: 28% of gay French support Le Pen - more than her general population support.
37% of teachers as well.
I thought her fans were all neo-nazis and skinheads..
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One could ask if a joke about clerical vanity which insinuates something unmanly about it does in fact constitute an act of stereotyping about gays and women. It probably should have been avoided in any case.
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all_married_couples_do,_including_the_gay_ones.
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What's your view on the terms homophobia and anti-Semitic?
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I detect the hand of Mike Pence; yet another Fundamentalist Christian goes to the White House.
"Pruitt is also an evangelical Christian — he serves as a deacon at First Baptist Church in Broken Arrow, Okla. and graduated from Georgetown College, an evangelical school. He has a record of opposing marriage equality, transgender bathroom access and abortion, and opposed a church-state separation ballot initiative on the Oklahoma ballot earlier this year."
http://religionnews.com/2016/12/05/evangelicals-in-trumps-cabinet-educators-worry-science-will-be-a-casualty/
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Teachings DO change. To deny this is to deny historical fact. When ideology and facts collide, any reasonable person would change his or her ideology to fit the facts.
Discriminating on the basis of behavior you deem "sinful" is still discriminating. Like Trid and some others here, you are bigoted against gays,. I deem your discriminatory behavior to be sinful, because I deem all bigotry to be sinful, a far worse sin than some consensual homosexual act. Scripture tells us that the two great commandments are to love God and love our fellow human beings, and you are abjuring that second commandment.
To say that your bigotry is supported by your religion is to pervert the religion you claim to profess.
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Now now motley..... LOL. You're suggesting a rule that we can't hold our wive's hand or kiss her public - NO showing sexual orientation in public!
I have no complaint with mothers, lesbians or environmentalist. But I hate that we have become a society of identity politics. We're consumed with what separates us from our neighbors, not what we may have in common.
Human's are a very diverse species and certainly are more intermingled both physically and culturally than at any time in history. It's a clash of civilization, large and small, that can no longer live in isolation. We have to learn to be civil or we'll live in perpetual anger.
That's a very idealistic hope, not one I expect to see in this lifetime — but it would be good to nudge it in that direction. .
Later..
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It is not hate to care about the souls of others. Regardless of what you may think, there is such a thing as sin, and some sins are more harmful to our souls than lesser sins. One of those is homosexual sex among other sexual sins. Fr. Martin is doing people with same-sex attraction a grave disservice by omitting the fact that, if they are Catholic and truly want to follow Christ, then they must not engage in sex. He has placed himself in a position to do authentic, spiritual and charitable work and he not only drops the ball (truth), he hides it.
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Mayor Tory is dead wrong.
As long as Pride is willing to allow itself to be dictated to by the racist hooligans at Black Lives Matter, and shun a police presence because BLM is somehow against police, , then it does not deserve public funding of any sort.
This has nothing to do with gay pride, and everything to do with BLM's racist and antagonistic agenda.
Don't give them one cent.
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Whether its white supremacy, or trans gender supremacy the political corruption behind the movement is the same: nobody may object or refuse their power without serious repercussions to their reputation, career and future prospects.
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"Sam is jewish, old..."
"I'm not sure how I feel about women, gays, Latino's, Asians or woman choice..."
Actually Paul it is quite obvious how you "feel".
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Somebody explain to me, please, how a gay or trans person threatens anyone's marriage like actual marital discord does.
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Well, because I am straight (heterosexual), I dated men and I married a man. Because they are gay, my gay friends dated and committed to partners of the same gender, despite the fact that they experienced an equal degree of peer pressure from both our straight and gay friends.
It is developmentally expected and normal that most young people engage in peer pressure about almost anything that has captured their attention, and my friends and I responded in expected and normal ways to peer pressure: we responded with choices that were consistent with who we are.
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"A person is not defined by a sexual orientation," said Bochanski.
I thought defining men and women as having a heterosexual orientation (by natural law created by God) was the foundation of Catholic teaching on the marriage and the family.
Seems clear that the church does define everyone by sexual orientation. Except when they're gay? In which case the church defines their ss attraction as a phantasm of disordered emotion.
Not being gay myself, I can't say how gays should feel about the Courage approach. No doubt some find it a path to wholeness, while others feel it's a denial of their personhood. But to claim that a person isn't "defined by their sexual orientation" seems at best a half truth to me.
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My mother isn't gay.
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More and more male same-sex couples are now using surrogacy to have biological children. It's a growth industry.
Men are realizing that with all this support, "I don't want to adopt a child, I can have some of my own genetic material." (David, a 45-year-old from California)
Won't preventing surrogacy stop homosexual men fulfilling their dream? Is this fair?
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Can't you read? The document does not address those who violate their vow of celibacy before, during, or after seminary, it specifically targets anyone who simply admits to being gay, as well as those who are presumably suspected of being so by seminary officials. That presents a double standard since those with "deep-seated heterosexual tendencies" are not similarly targeted. It is a justice issue, pure and simple, or perhaps I should say, an injustice issue.
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"Paranoid"? People pointing out a clear advantage FOR this individual in a field of competition are "paranoid"? Fairness is taught in ALL fields competition. At all levels. From youth to professional. There is clearly something wrong here. Otherwise create a transgender division.
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Tri, don't use their language. "Homophobia" ostensibly implies a fear or persecution of a person; whereas those who are concerned with those who self-identify as "gay" do not fear or persecute the person.
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It's actually a little worse than that now ...... "A transgender woman says she was raped in a unisex bathroom at the Stonewall Inn — and police are searching for the suspect who they say regularly frequents the landmark gay bar."
http://nypost.com/2016/03/28/transgender-woman-says-she-was-raped-in-stonewall-inn-bathroom/
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It's sad that this discussion of a new historic district & its implications turned into a R vs. D debate of unrelated topics like gay marriage & abortion.
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" desperate) posts " IMHO very, very sadly doesn't begin to explain such non-sense so commonly espoused by homosexuals and those to uninformed to understand the factual realities associated with this chosen lifestyle.
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As a retired psychotherapist it saddens me to recall the families who gave their teenage children who wanted to come out as gay a rough time. Kenney's move will make it harder for young people to live honestly in accordance with their sexual orientation. He's endorsing an approach which turns homosexuality into a sin or a crime. And driving a wedge between parent and child. Not exactly "family values"!
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All of his "sign and telephone" policies only require the new President to line through and initial. He doesn't even have to wait for the US Supreme Court (who has already killed his 'recess appointment' attempt) to have his plans to combat climate change, his executive action on immigration, his transgender rights policy (any bathroom in any school is fine) etc.
A stroke of the Obama pen is trumped, so to speak, by the stroke of his pen.
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Race relations can always be improved and have been in the past by any oppressed group buying the love and respect they crave. Although not a race issue, gays followed this very effective path during the last 30 years or so. It became clear that gay people had money and spent it. A revelation. If you business discriminated against gays, they wouldn't buy your product. Follow this simple plan and you will win, since cash is king.
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The oft-engaged but never married Ann Coulter blames Harvey on Houston's electing a lesbian mayor. Is Mark Foley the reason tropical storms regularly hit Florida?
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Hmmm....the petition requests that women and girls maintain their right to privacy and bakers and photographers not be forced to participate in gay ceremonies. Restaurant services and the like are not included. What is the problem? It sounds like a common sense petition. Sop the invalid and untrue accusations to further deceive people and push your agenda.
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"The psychological studies have found that homosexuality as such is not the cause of abuse, but when gay seminarians do not come to terms with their orientation in the church's closed homophobic environment, it is more difficult for them to become psychosexually mature enough to resist opportunities with minors."
Yes. So from that, isn't barring men with same sex attraction from Catholic seminaries the most sane and effective approach to protecting children?
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I remember the Christian gay advocate Mel White saying on TV years ago that if all the gay church musicians suddenly didn't appear for work at church there would be silence in Christendom. A similar scenario is true for the clergy as well. As a lesbian Episcopal priest I once knew said, "the church has run on gay power for centuries." It's just a pity that gay people can't be recognized for their hugely significant contribution to Holy Mother Church. Perhaps, as Jesus said, "your reward will be great in heaven." I certainly hope that's true for your sake.
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If the government was ear marking $500 million to educate Canadians how terribly we have treated natives, how racist our history of black slavery , how misogynist our treatment of women , the evil oppression of our french population, our treachery towards gay and homosexuals, how stupid we are about the devastation we have wreaked upon what was once a beautiful land, the Globe would say it is money well spent. But it is being spent to celebrate our achievements in creating a good place to live and that to the Globe is just just a big waste of time and money. .
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Trans-Gender issues started out as one gender being trapped in a body of the opposite gender - whether that be incorrect medical genitalia assignment at birth for those born with no outward genitalia - or for those who were "wired" to be of the opposite gender. Both of those outcomes have come to be understood, if not appreciated by the majority of Canadians (I would hope) - and people so affected can now strive to have physical sex changes, if they so choose. Other than that - you're either a girl or a boy - you might be gay - or Bi-sexual - or simply a cross dresser - but hey, what additional "rights" are actually required?
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I already explained why I mentioned gays . Your three point plan is a good one. I'd have added a fourth point---bring back Dan Sullivan as mayor. We need him now more than ever.
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Once again, Liberal vice disguised as virtue. Human smuggling? Bad. Accepting refugees who aren't really refugees? Bad. Doing an end run around our immigration system and its requirements? Bad. But if it's for the benefit of gays, then all is well.
Canadians deserve to have faith in their immigration system, and a faith of convenience is no faith at all.
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OK sources please. Show me where a transgender person has harmed kids? Why would you trust a male teacher, coach or anyone else with "mens's plumbing"? It's not the equipment or lack of it that makes a person trustworthy. Transgender is not synonymous with pedophile, look it up!
Put door on the stalls, respect everyone.
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When have you ever heard anyone ask a transsexual man to speak or write on behalf of all women, or a transsexual woman to speak or write on behalf of all men?
Boyden claims to write as and speak for Indigenous people even though he is of British (settler) ancestry.
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In God there is no male nor female. "Man" is a male-dictated generic term for all aspects of humanity.
Francis is a product of his time and needs to educate himself, of to be educated, about transgenderism.
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We could fire the social workers and then give each homeless person half their salary for three months. They would be told to use the money to buy decent clothes, get an apartment, and get a job. After three months the money goes to another homeless person who is given the same chance.
Instead, the plan is to take a homeless person, give them permanent shelter, and change everything about them and their personality by treating them like a six year old, and that doing so will correct the lack of upbringing they had when they were children. "The plan" is not in any way pragmatic or realistic, so the people running this gambit are targetting specific sub-groups - transgender individuals and women - in order to get the political support they need for a plan that's designed to put money into their own pockets, while not helping the handful of lottery winning women and transgender people who will be given "permanent" housing in exchange for being treated like little children.
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This is exactly why working with young people who wish to be transgender is best left up to professionals, and to parents with the guidance of a professional. Asking questions such as the one you suggest may well create a sense of shame and rejection that worsens the situation. There is no way that any untrained person, including parents (at first) could be prepared to deal with a trans situation. It is one of those situations that require the help of trained helpers.
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SAD - Ms. Manson has written nothing but gossip; inaccuracies; and sadly an attempt to read the mind and thoughts of Francis.
The document she references was released by a dicastery - it was not signed by Francis. This happens hundreds of times a month - BUT, she reads into this typical release motivations, biases, judgments, etc. that may or may not be true.
Suggest that this stream of consciousness spiel says much about Ms. Manson - nothing about Francis, gay priests, or the Church.
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Ummmm.....
Care to clarify your own point?
I already know of PeeWee Herman within the Cheech and Chong movie, 'Up in Smoke", and that his real name is Paul Ruebens, and that he had his own childrens show, and that he may be gay, so......
I have never been within a Cheech and Chong movie, mine own name is not Paul, and I am not gay, not that there is anything wrong with that, and sorry, I am not sorry, so what is your own point, JZ?
You know that you are going to lose this game, no?
If not, I am sorry for you within advance.
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(Part five of five) If the Church gave the go-ahead on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, divorce, and women's ordination, do you really suppose attendance would increase? And, if it did, so what?—Rule and Raven
The Church errors firing professors for even thinking about contraception, abortion, homosexuality, divorce and remarriage, and women’s ordination.
___
It's on us when a man who consistently promotes fear and hatred and demonization of the other is the pride of the churchgoing vote.—Matt Connolly
Indeed.
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No not really...but I bet the pro-choice/pro-life debate would be phenomenal. Just listening to talk radio and a caller brought up a good point. The story was about a WNBA player who quit the league because 98% of the players in the league were homosexual and she couldn't handle all the girls hitting on her constantly. That's when a women's libber called up and started complaining. Then from that the conversation turned to gender/non-gender do as you please however you feel to think today if you're a boy or girl. Then from there it went back to a feminism caller who complained that the non-gender subculture was making the libber's arguments moot. And then...it went to abortion. And then...it went to Gosnell. For the next 2 hrs it was all Gosnell. I'm guessing if it has traction nationally, then it'll have traction here. But NONE of the media here reported this story. THAT'S the Hawai'i story and angle from your article. Nobody reporting stuff here.
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I have to at least give props to Justin for having the sense to ask Mr. Mulroney for help. Justin excels mostly at gay pride parades and activist causes, so for the economy, it makes sense for a conservative to take the reins.
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Actually you are wrong on many points. The APA does not still consider "transgenderism" as a psychological disorder. Sodomy bans have been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court, so no, they are not punishable. The responsibility to conduct oneself orderly falls upon the individual. Just like racist white service members were no doubt uncomfortable when the service was integrated, so do non trans soldiers have get over it or ask for a discharge.
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What Betty indicated - and has since reiterated - is that he was fired for coming out. Read her second comment.
I said he resigned, offered you citations that said he resigned, offered the understanding of the letter that was offered and how it was received...he knew perfectly well what would happen. A priest does not say I intend to marry my homosexual partner and expect to remain in good standing. He resigned.
Honest? Absolutely not. I have read interview and reports - his book notwithstanding. His activities for quite some time were not honest. His method of announcing his opinions were not honest...but self-aggrandizing. Publicity does not always equate to honesty.
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"In Obergefell, Justice Kennedy’s majority opinion explained that “[t]he Constitution promises liberty to all within its reach, a liberty that includes certain specific rights that allow persons, within a lawful realm, to define and express their identity.” Hence, the liberties protected by the 14th Amendment extend to “intimate choices that define personal identity and beliefs.” Law professor Lawrence Tribe has celebrated that “Obergefell’s chief jurisprudential achievement is to have tightly wound the double helix of Due Process and Equal Protection into a doctrine of equal dignity,” and the decision’s establishment of same-sex couples’ freedom to marry was “understood by all to directly redress the subordination of LGBT individuals... The court’s recognition that both due process and equal protection require that individuals be permitted to self-determine-to define and express themselves-has unmistakable extension to rights for the transgender community..."
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ALL of us have "a number of things" that we "would be ashamed of should they come to light." Even St. Paul called himself the chief of sinners, and I am certainly no better than St. Paul. But, that is beside the point.
If we roll out and take a long look at the big picture, the issue here is whether a Christian church can continue to hold to its doctrine in an age when doctrines repugnant to the Christian Tradition are being enshrined into law an imposed on them. The corollary issue is whether adherents to that religion can gather together with a common commitment to those doctrines in the midst of an increasingly hostile society.
Homosexual "marriage" may be statutory law, but it has never been and can never be canon law. Since Christians consider their true citizenship to be in heaven, for us the laws of God trump the laws of Caesar. The benefit of that fact to society is that the laws of God, as understood by the Christian Church from the Holy Scriptures and Tradition, are good.
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This author makes a strong case. Marxism has been harmless for everyone except villagers, landowners, homosexuals, cossacks, native Americans, political prisoners, union members, or the religious. And of these, only 85 million or so were killed (please see communiststats.com and take a detailed and gut-wrenching overview of these deaths...and of course R.J. Rummel also puts it into perspective quickly and informatively: https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.TAB1.GIF. ) I agree with Richard Poplak: “There is nothing even remotely terrifying about the ideas of Professor Chris Malikane.”
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It is also guilty of a fraudulent enlistment as a transgender has always been forbidden military service. Section 8/General Discharge for any known to be serving.
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It turns out that you're wrong, AGAIN, on everything. Hate crimes can be used in crimes against white, gay people, by straight, white people. Need a citation to the legislative intent of hate crimes that supports your theory. Good luck with that.
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Funny that the cake case should be brought up by this writer. Local and state laws force religious dissenters who don't want their product in a homosexual ceremony that their genuine religious beliefs find disgusting and abhorrent, and against their beliefs but the Obama EEOC just ruled that Muslim Somali drivers who took jobs as delivery drivers can refuse to carry liquor based on the very religious beliefs the States, and local laws deny the religious dissenters.
So one set of rules for Muslims and another for Christians here in freedom loving America founded by peoples seeking religious freedom?
No double standard here?
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Comment 2
What made an enormous difference once Civil Rights laws were passed was a recognition that the market places where jobs are secured and where goods and services were exchanged were to be places in which people of different skin colors all had to be treated the same. We are not separate societies – we are one society.
The cake baker bakes and sells cakes on the public markets. If the cake baker were white, black, straight or gay, Catholic or Muslim, he should be expected to provide the same cakes to all who come to buy what he has to sell. He doesn’t have to make a different product for a gay wedding – he just needs to make the product he sells to white, black, Catholic, Muslim, straight people. Gay people are not a separate society but part of the same society as non-gay people. We all live under the same laws.
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It all adds up to the same kick to the curb. This is exactly what Alison drives at in the Tablet piece cited above by Victor Victoria:
"It is just conceivable that enough synod participants realised that there is no way to communicate current teaching mercifully, or with less hateful language – maybe because that teaching’s premise of the objectively disordered nature of the “homosexual inclination” is actually false? ... I suspect there was enough of a recognition that there is no genuine way out of the impasse without raising a question of doctrine ... For the first time in my memory, the bishops seem to have faced up to having a genuine problem on their hands that is their problem, not that of LGBT people, and no apparent way out of it without help."
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You want a single standard instead of one based on gender differences?
I've heard of that concept being suggested in criminal sentencings; hasn't gained a great deal of support from the enlightened intelligentsia so far, though.
A woman pedophile gets a lesser sentence in a heterosexual situation than a male pedophile, for example.
In the gay/lesbian mantra, there are no gay or lesbian pedophiles.
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He pulled a Dennis Hastert and just gave a general apology, never mentioning the pedophilia...
But at least he admitted that he's gay. Hastert didnt even do that.
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I suggest readers not take offence to Tabatha's column because her writing is satire and it is funny....and for Mr. Trost a reminder that he marginalized himself as a potential national leader by choosing to share his perspective on 'the gay thing'....i.e. he's homophobic.
Thankfully, most Canadians have an attitude of live and let live...the foundation of our country to some extent was about two cultures having to work out how to live within the same national state. I think that extends to the large majority of Canadians being 'ok' with the 'gay thing.' They probably have some gays or lesbians in their family or among their friends and have accepted them for who they are.
As some of those commenting, they notice there is a big part of our demographic that are millennials and the Conservative Party will certainly not win them over by being homophobic. It's 2017, not 1957, so let's move on. Let's avoid the divisiveness that is being encouraged south of the border.
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(Part one of three) Your doctorate is obviously not in a field which requires much writing—mjmchale Not only that, western in www.western-civilization.com is misspelled.
Are you suggesting that there is no "dogmatic source" for the proposition that homosexual acts are sinful?—mjmchale That question is irrelevant. What is relevant is the claim that there is a dogmatic source for the proposition that homosexual acts are sinful.
Or that man is simply unable to discern what constitutes a "homosexual act'?—mjmchale No need for misogynism. Rather than man being unable to discern, the first problem is humans being unable to discern; the second problem is defining just what may be meant by “homosexual acts.”
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"Don't worry.
Trump has already played the transgender card to please his base. He's got GLB remaining,"
.
Nope. Sessions killed that with the argument that glb's are not covered by discrimination protections.
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cont'd
on issues like contraception, gay marriage, and women's ordination as proof that "Catholics come in many varieties," and you ask me, "Who are you to judge?"
The fact that many people who call them selves Catholic while refusing to believe what Catholicism says must be believed in order to be Catholic says a lot about the rationality of these people. It certainly doesn't prove, as you contend it does, that "Catholics come in many varieties." By definition, a Catholic believes what is essential to Catholic teaching. To say otherwise would be not only illogical, but pointless. Why on earth would someone claim to be Catholic while rejecting Catholicism? Ah! A mystery. OK, sister, you got me.
As for your question, "Who are you to judge?" I see you're trying to channel Francis. Oh, dear. Problem is, at least Francis was talking about about moral judgment. I make no moral judgment about people who reject Church teaching on
cont'd
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There are a lot of Christians who support marriage equality and transgender rights. There are a lot of non-Christians who don’t. These are not uniquely Christian issues and criticizing Scheer’s position on them is not in any way an attack on Christianity in general.
It's more like some conservatives have wasted no time playing the anti-Christian card.
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The West has become more and more secular over time, particularly in the last 20 years as secular governments are demanding to disassociate themselves and their citizens from religion (either as a power move or as a perceived conflict of interest).
So do you think that the Catholic Church risks going "belly up" if it doesn't stop emphasizing God so much? At the rate things are changing, the secularists will have you believing that God and Jesus are transgendered, and don't laugh, because there have been many here quoting Galatians 3:28 recently.
The Church should not be changing to avoid going belly up or to cower to the whims of a degenerate society. The shepherd does not follow the sheep.
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She apologized for the remark? It was a Clinton Presidency "program", a program which sent many Afican Americans to jail, an apology just doesn't work.
As far as the question I asked, I will answer for you-"pantsuit on fire" is for women and LGBT rights-if it happens to be a election year, but in the off years she (Clinton FDN) is collecting millions from counties ( too many to list) that stone women to death for minuscule reasons, and prosecute/kill homosexuals for being different, I assume Arlene you are ok with this?
Instead of speaking against this and condemning these nations, Hilary, well let's just say she prefers to make bank ($$).
I'll vote with a very clear conscience, I hope you can do the same.
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Instead of reading minds, why don't you look at how the logic of AL is being used in Canada to justify giving the Eucharist to somebody who has already arranged to defy God's will one last time by killing himself on his own terms. Or how that San Diego bishop has extended the logic of AL to include active homosexuals who can't be bothered to change their lifestyles to follow a God they claim to love and obey. The Eucharist, the real presence of Jesus Christ, is the heart of the matter. Once you turn that real presence into a symbolic meal then you relativize everything just like mainline Protestantism.
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There is nothing you are saying that involves creating laws that say others have to live by your religious views, so seems like we aren't disagreeing. It also appears you are saying you have a business of some sort and don't want to serve gay individuals because it is condoning sin? I'm pretty sure you have to stop serving everyone, since we all are with sin.
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I'm sure in your mind this has something to do with transgender people serving in the armed forces of the United States. WOW!
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Trying to equate racial discrimination with transgenders is a weak argument. Public toilets since the beginning have been based on either being a male or female sexually, not on what one claims to be or wishes they were. If nothing else it is common sense and most parents do not want young children exposed to the transgender or opposite sex bathroom experience. Public toilets are available based on the physical sex of each individual, or in some cases facilities with limited access that have locks on the doors. Why is this not perfectly acceptable? What of the rights of millions of people whose religious or personal beliefs reject the transgender life as sinful or immoral? Why insist everyone using what ever toilet that he or she wishes to use other than to force an issue that should be obvious in it's solution.
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I assume you refer to this:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-christians-must-apologize-gay-people-marginalizing-them
He does not appear to apologize for the way the Church has treated gay people. However, given his proclivity for ill-considered off-the-hip comments he may yet.
He does suggest - not magisterially - that Christians, sinners one and all, should apologize for anything they have done.
There’s in that conflicting with my statement(s).
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The only issue I see here is the fairness of a person born Male competing against people born Female. "She" Ice, depicted in the Newspaper picture, (not the one above in this article), appears much larger and taller with longer arms and legs. I would think that "she" is most probably stronger than "her" other female competitors. Is this really fair? Should those other female competitors loose out on scholarships they might have been awarded had they competed against other born
females. Let's look at it another way. If Ice had been born Female and transgendered to Male, would "he" compete against other Males in this same sport, how about other sports, football?? And if so, would the reversal be true, would it be unfair to Ice to have to compete with other Males? Or would "he" even desire to try to compete against other males. Seems "she" has an advantage against other females. Reminds me of R. Richardson the tennis player form the 70's. It is what it is!
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A man with a homosexual orientation going into the priesthood is not sacrificing a wife and a family of his own, he is just refraining from activity that as a Christian and a Catholic he is not supposed to engage in anyway. You can't give up something you don't have a desire for. Also, the priest is supposed to be the icon of Christ the bridegroom married to the Church. If a man isn't capable of marriage how can he reflect this in a priestly vocation?
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This is an excellent article. It is sober and reflective. Thank you, Father Reese.
Compromise is the key to moving forward. However, I would place compromise in a slightly broader context that takes into account the direction of history. History does have a direction, and for the faithful that direction is union with a loving God.
Humanity is on a journey. As Pope Francis keeps repeating: encounter and accompaniment, dialogue and mercy, and a field hospital mentality are how we continue the journey. Compromise keeps the conversation going.
Why the journey? The Spirit takes us as we are, including our conceptual limitations. We struggle to find conceptualizations that are closer to reality. Discrimination against gays is the burden of an ancient and -- unfortunately -- sacralized conceptualization. The young tend to be less burdened, and more open to conceptualizations closer to reality.
Compromise maintains the journey. It is not the end. Patience is a grace.
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Tempmoana, I believe you missed the point. You are right about Farook’s wife not being from one of the six countries in Trump’s travel ban, but your reply to Scuddrunner was not confined to Trump’s travel ban only. You said “What makes you think that? If you are a terrorist, then chances are extreme vetting-- employed by Obama and Trump-- will block you.” You threw in Obama. The point I made is that Scuddrunner is right; it is possible for a U.S. citizen or legal resident intent on committing acts of terrorism in the U.S. to bring in a “fiancé” accomplice from any country using the K-1 visa program. With same sex marriage now authorized in the U.S., “fiancés” can be of the same sex as the petitioner, which makes vetting a bit more difficult. A same sex fiancé from a Muslim country should wave a red flag in the vetting process, but I would not count on it.
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I am the judge. I'm not afraid of, nor do espouse or teach the fear of Blacks, Asians, Gays, Native Americans and etc. Maybe I'm practicing moral relativity but you are using false equivalencies and, as a maybe moral relativist, I avoid people that somehow think child molestation and murder is the equivalent of being LGBT.
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O NCRers, just what is it you want?
You're Catholic, right? So you should be pleased that the winner is pro life, anti-military engagements (Peace over War), pro-worker, pro parochial education voucher.
You're progressive, right? So you should also be pleased that the winner is also pro gay, pro gay marriage, pro bathroom choice, anti-government corruption.
Instead of at least being happy that the candidate with these positions-- positions you likely agree with -- won the election, you act like all your hopes have been dashed to pieces.
I can understand if you're against some of Trump's positions....but how can you be against all of them?
Perhaps the writers at NCR, like other media outlets, are encouraging you to be against literally every position of the new administration. It is all wrong, and it all spells doom.
But I don't see how this can be so, unless you're buying into a wholesale polemic that is far more political (in the sense of propaganda) than rational
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Are they trying to block you out, Jim? Your voice is much needed on these fora ... I sense that you're a battle-hardend gay veteran with so much wisdom to offer ... and I love your dry humour!
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As for LGBT rights, recent court decisions are treating gays as a protected class and applying employment law on that base. If the bishops want to manage this, they need to get ENDA passed with some kind of exemption for ministry or the courts will enact a larger policy that will allow less elbow room. As for contraception, they are simply wrong. In the face of natural law evidence going the other way, they pulled the authority card. Their arguments have zero merit. It is no shock they are oppositional. That is what you do when you are wrong.
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I would even strengthen what I said: the Holy Father's anecdote employs a stereotype about women, and implies one about gays. Thus I do not approve of it, though I have always defended the Pope in everything.
I am not of the opinion that the Church needs to get rid of celibacy; nor am I of the opinion that the link between the masculine sex and the hierarchical priesthood needs to be removed. I am of the opinion that the Church's way of thinking about sexuality is and has been in many cases carnal and stereotyping and gives rise to misogyny, that this has nothing to do with the Gospel and is in fact opposed to it and needs to be changed. With regard to gay people I am convinced that pastoral care must avoid all stereotyping that here one must take into account that one is dealing with concrete persons, each one with his own story, who needs to be heard and respected, as Jesus does with each soul.
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Couples do not make public statements as to whether they are using contraception. Many homosexual couples make no public statements about their lifestyles, even if they are suspected they are, therefore, given the benefit of the doubt. The Church cannot be seen to be endorsing homosexual activity which it condemns as intrinsically disordered. By defining their relationship as a 'marriage' they are making their rejection of the Church's teaching public.
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While Muslims excoriate us about supposed Islamophobia, we should bear in mind Islam's entrenched xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, Judeophobia, Christophbia, Europhobia, Americanophobia, iconoclasm, and even Islamophobia against each other. Ancient hatreds and wars of extermination between Kurds, Shiite, Sunni, Wahhabi, Druze and other Islamic sects are worse than anything expressed in the west, even by Trump
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A call for tolerance??? I disagree, we should be angry over this attack. Tolerance and turning the other cheek doesn't work when the other team is counting on you doing just that. Radical Islam does not play by our rules.
Instead of a vigil everyone should be on the phones, email and letter writting campaigns to Washington to stop this nonsense on American soil. They know who the top ISIS players are and my question is why are they still walking around free while we are holding funerals. I think we've been tolerate enough as a country and are playing the price. Gay or not, Christan or not, white or black, it doesn't matter, they were Americans. It's time our giver many took action instead of making excuses.
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RE: Did everything really just get ugly when couples started using contraception and gays and lesbians asked to be married? <<<<
Sam Rocha once characterized Rod Dreher's view of the US culture wars by describing Dreher's sense of catastrophe as kitsch and parochial, his sense of despair as emotivist and modern. Same with +Chaput's vision.
Rhetorical confrontation, political, legal, canonical & military coercions all have their rightful place as the hard powers that we must call upon at times. But prudence and subsidiarity give primacy to the less coercive soft powers of dialogical communication, diplomatic consultation, pastoral accommodation, moral enculturation & Gospel inculturation. What most characterizes the neocon cultural engagement strategy is their reflexive & inordinate reliance on hard powers. Kaveny has characterized +Chaput's approach as prophetic utterance?
That's fair-minded. But his theological anthropology seems too pessimistic, his imagination too dialectical?
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Here we go again! The RCC's obsession with a large constituency of its clergy, gay priests, is a never ending saga. As a Colombian priest noted in his book, the RCC has been one huge closet for RC males who don't want to come out to their families. This is certainly truer in culturally more repressive societies. Fortunately, civilizing parents are embracing their offspring more affirmatively than the institutional church. The latter is a bad mother who continues to judge without mercy, reason.
How 'bout priests a with bisexual orientation? Shouldn't Francis & Co. address this? They deserve equally discriminatory time.
If a priest capitulates to his sexual urges, there is always confession. How long the RCC saw pedophile priests need only confession, not any secular law to get with the program? Why doesn't it warn pedophiles who see girls and boys as their prey from entering priesthood?
Jimmy Breslin contends the decline of vocations is due to their cover being blown in the RCC.
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So, every time a baker makes a wedding cake, they're participating in the wedding?
Do they vett the bride and groom to ensure their product is going to a ceremony that meets the approval of their subjective version of "God"?
Are they denying wedding cakes to divorcees who are getting remarried? Because, while Jesus and the Ten Commandments both say literally NOTHING about homosexuality, they both have pretty strong opinions on divorce and adultery.
Do they bake cakes for atheists? Because, by your, lol, "logic", they're denying "God" by association.
Do they bake cakes for Hindus? Buddhists? Sikhs? If so, aren't they honoring "false gods"?
No, your "logic" here falls flat on its face. You and your ilk are desperately hanging on to your ability to legally display your hatred to the last group that you're allowed to do so. Your fear, ignorance, and bigotry is a worse condemnation of your ideology than any "attack" you perceive from outside of it.
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I very much appreciate the sentiments Sr. Fiedler expressed in this piece, but the truth is, the Diocese of Madison only codified a practice that I've been told by several friends living in various parts of the country happens all over the place. The only difference being that other dioceses haven't codified their position into a formal statement which then gets leaked to the press and broadcast over the internet. Various priests simply engage in the same behavior and no one reports on it. The end result is that those few remaining gay people like me who have endured are getting more and more tired of fighting for our dignity and one by one we depart in peace, having received the message loud and clear that we're not wanted - which should please several commenters here very much. I myself already have one foot out the door. Congratulation, you guys - you've largely won the whole ballgame. It's only a matter of minor clean-up at this point.
"Make the Church Straight Again" Woo hoo!
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It seems that given the past thousand years this dilemma will not be solved in our lifetime. LGBTQ is a new acronym to me. When I served in BUPERS, (the Bureau of Naval Personnel), in DC I was responsible for processing Naval personnel for discharge. One day I happened to look at the 500 form printing and noticed that all forms had the discharge category of “undesirable”. I did not understand so I asked my Chief. He said they were queers who, regardless of any commendations, were being immediately discharged. I was floored. Now in 2017 the president tweets an order to expel all transgenders without first discussing it with the military generals. That was the military.
Now we have a church who is without a way to “handle” those who are identified as LGBTQ’s without breaking their tenets. I would suggest that if they continue an isolation method, it will never come to pass.
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Doesn't anyone remember how Hillary treated the victims of her husbands abuses? I do. Does anyone want a country so far left it will tip over? I don't. Would a rally with rap stars get my vote? No. Hollywood does not have anything in common with me. People just got tired of Liberal Privilege. Maybe people remembered that the Nazis were Socialists. In fact the name means National Socialists. Maybe some people think there are bigger issues then transgender bathrooms for the government to work on. Maybe free speech is more important then "safe spaces". My God Obama just signed a bill that cut my pension. Maybe people found out that Obama is the first president to spend all of his 2 terms at war. He bombed more then 7 countries, most of them Muslim. He deported more Mexicans then all the previous presidents in the 20th century combined. Not that I disagree with all that but I hate the lefts denial about it. Obama has done a lot of what the left is afraid Trump will do.
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No. You say he's made cakes for gay people before. You claim that as fact. How many has he made?
Nice buzzwords. Sounds to me like this man's faith "triggers" you. Why is it you "SJWs" never want your justice for the Christians?
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Most healthy women do not harbour the outright hostility you have toward gay men. Most of them actually like them.
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...and trans people should be given bingo cards that have numbers that are not in the hopper. That's the way to stay happy and blessed.
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Trinidad - Thank you for commenting here. Firstly I would like say you sound very wise for a 16 year old, and an environment with challenges can be good for a persons character. I watched my mother and father get drunk, take drugs and beat each other up on a weekly basis and tried to shield my younger siblings from this. It sounds like in some ways you are growing up in a better environment than I did. Your environment may be positive and loving, but many in this particular demographic of homosexuality and transgenderism are not, and when society begins to celebrate situations like this, it becomes very concerning to many people (myself included). Mutilating ones body in order to meet a a perceived inner desire is a VERY dangerous road to start out on and confuses younger children in many ways, and most importantly it is not God's will for families. I believe I can speak for all the Christians here on when I say we wish God's best for you and your family. Have a Merry Christmas,
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Nothing in the bible states that the marriage of two homosexuals is unacceptable either. It condemns homosexual behavior (which I'm told isn't limited to the confines of marriage). The sexual and interpersonal behaviors of atheists who are married are also unlikely to meet biblical standards. Why put his "creative soul" into celebrating the latter?
Or to use a different example, if I were a divorcee getting remarried, you could make a biblical case for the sinfulness of the "event" of my new marriage. But again, I doubt he questions every heterosexual couple who want to purchase a cake for their wedding. It's likely that he does find homosexuals to be "worse" than other sinners, but that's not biblically supported. It's cherry-picking.
The event of marriage can't be separated from the people involved, and as cake shop he's in the business of events. But if it's only events, not people that are a problem, let's remove that for a minute. Would he make a cake honoring Harvey Milk?
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Has the Church, the Denomination, ever made any pronouncement about this issue?
If not, it's past due!
The reason is simple: Apparently this man uses the Church's pulpit to vibrantly lecture on an issue that he is particularly passionate about. Yes, he has the right to do it, but NOT taking advantage of a church's pulpit. If he is so dedicated to his cause, why doesn't he rent a big gymnasium, advertises his theme, and go from there? It is not right for him to get in front of a slave audience and spit on them his personal views on any issue.
He is certainly not the only one guilty. Someone invited/allowed him to deliver his lecture(s). Are they sanctioning, endorsing, promoting his views?
If I had the time...., I would check if he has been informing the public on the neurological data available about the homosexual nature. Or is he focusing only on homosexual behavior, thus neglecting the biological aspects of the issue? (Which most "passionate" people do!)
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Abortion are euthanasia are intrinsic moral evils, as is homosexual "marriage", never justifiable. Poverty, the environment and immigration are social ills, to be addressed and overcome by prudential measures that Catholics can legitimately disagree on.
The sins that cry to heaven for vengeance:
The "blood of Abel": homicide, infanticide, fratricide, parricide, and matricide;
The "sin of the Sodomites": pride, gluttony, negligence of the poor, abuse of children, and homosexual acts;
The "cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan": slavery and unjust discrimination; and
The "injustice to the wage earner": taking advantage of and defrauding workers.
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